Max93 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 My nymphs started dying a week ago and i don't know why, i thought it might be there food or there water but i changed both and washed the orange i put in. The symtoms are twitching of the legs, going on there back, inability to walk, seizuring of the stomach and convulsions, and the othern nymphs are eating each other, its only happening to the nymphs and it even happened to one of the bigger nymphs. Please help i need helpe ASAP or all my nymphs will be dead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allpet Roaches Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Because they are eating each other I would guess they've been short on food and water (there are other possibilities such as pesticide from offered food). At this point some may be dying and not yet dead and those can't be helped. However, many should survive if feeding and watering is kept up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max93 Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Because they are eating each other I would guess they've been short on food and water (there are other possibilities such as pesticide from offered food). At this point some may be dying and not yet dead and those can't be helped. However, many should survive if feeding and watering is kept up. I feed them very well i believe, Almonds, Oranges on occasion also carrots now and then and lettuce and sometimes ill throw in celery and crackers which they like to nibble on, but the ones that die don't show any symptoms until the next day, is it bad if they eat each other? Is that why it keeps happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BugmanPrice Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I feed them very well i believe, Almonds, Oranges on occasion also carrots now and then and lettuce and sometimes ill throw in celery and crackers which they like to nibble on, but the ones that die don't show any symptoms until the next day, is it bad if they eat each other? Is that why it keeps happening? Okay, what about water and humidity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBJ Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 You did not mention what species we are dealing with, but for some species a lack of water leads rather quickly to cannibalism. In stead of offering water in a bowl, you might try using a spayer to get some water onto the glass or other surroundings where the nymphs are. You are cleaning vegetables and fruits as Orin implied?? Some nymphs are quite difficult and has a high death-rate. At what temperatures are you keeping them?? You will have to fill us better in to have more precise answers. BR/ Ole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max93 Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 You did not mention what species we are dealing with, but for some species a lack of water leads rather quickly to cannibalism. In stead of offering water in a bowl, you might try using a spayer to get some water onto the glass or other surroundings where the nymphs are. You are cleaning vegetables and fruits as Orin implied?? Some nymphs are quite difficult and has a high death-rate. At what temperatures are you keeping them?? You will have to fill us better in to have more precise answers. BR/ Ole I have Madagascar Hissers, I keep the humidity very high, i supply water in a bowl with sponges, I started washing the veggies and fruits to see if that was the problem, Are fruits and veggies are rather clean without it but yeah ummm, 90-95 i believe, I keep a bunch of cut up egg cartons, a flower pot and a rock in there for them to hide so yeah thats all I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBJ Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I have Madagascar Hissers, I keep the humidity very high Many are not keeping their hissers particularly high in humidity. Are the tank smelly like 'moldy'? Are you removing the food before it starts decaying? I have never observed my hissers cannibalise! Have others seen that? BR/ Ole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max93 Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Many are not keeping their hissers particularly high in humidity. Are the tank smelly like 'moldy'? Are you removing the food before it starts decaying? I have never observed my hissers cannibalise! Have others seen that? BR/ Ole No it doesn't smell, I just don't get it the nymphs become really week and then the others eat them i feel like crying everytime i open the container. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBJ Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Have you checked for mites? Have you found oothecas that were aborted? (lying around) Did you try to feed with dog pellets or fish flakes? The nymphs generally like that. Are the tank overcrowded?? Makes it much harder to be small... Are you using pinewood bark as soil or as decorations (beside the egg cases)?? I am running out of ideas.... please assist BR/ Ole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max93 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Have you checked for mites? Have you found oothecas that were aborted? (lying around) Did you try to feed with dog pellets or fish flakes? The nymphs generally like that. Are the tank overcrowded?? Makes it much harder to be small... Are you using pinewood bark as soil or as decorations (beside the egg cases)?? I am running out of ideas.... please assist BR/ Ole No mites, no aborted oothecas, no i feed almonds for protein, Cannibalism is not the main problem, there dying before the others eat them, well my female had babies but it doesn't seem overcrowded to me, and i use hermit crab dirt and these wood pellets but its not not pinewood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BugmanPrice Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I keep my hissers fairly dry but with some humidity, if they have moderate humidity and water then that shouldn't be the issue. If I were you I'd try lowering the temperature (I've read 88F is optimal, but mine rarely reach that high and do quite well). How are you getting the high temps? If you are using a heat pad or some other under tank strip put it only under one half the tank or on the back of it. I'd try giving a better protein source, usually when a 'roach dies it isn't eaten by others unless the colony members are rather hungry (in my experiences at least). By the way... do they appear reddish in coloration after they die or right before then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max93 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 I keep my hissers fairly dry but with some humidity, if they have moderate humidity and water then that shouldn't be the issue. If I were you I'd try lowering the temperature (I've read 88F is optimal, but mine rarely reach that high and do quite well). How are you getting the high temps? If you are using a heat pad or some other under tank strip put it only under one half the tank or on the back of it. I'd try giving a better protein source, usually when a 'roach dies it isn't eaten by others unless the colony members are rather hungry (in my experiences at least). By the way... do they appear reddish in coloration after they die or right before then? they don't really seem red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max93 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Well my female just had babies so lets cross our fingers and hope those survive, i mean at least half of the others survived but i just don't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Well my female just had babies so lets cross our fingers and hope those survive, i mean at least half of the others survived but i just don't know 1. Your temps are too high. 2. Do not keep them moist- let dry in between waterings. Humidity is relative and yours may be way too high. 3. Do not feed them almonds....almond oil can be toxic to insects. Avoid any nuts. 4. Your roaches diet could be better. Feed them more leafy greens vegetables (not just the same lettuce) and do not feed them celery. Try more substantial vegetables like apples, carrots, spinach, squash of any sort, occasional piece of fruit, and some small amount of fish food/dog food/cat food or something similar. 5. Do you have substrate of any sort? 6. Make sure that there is some ventilation. Can you describe the container that they live in better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max93 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 1. Your temps are too high. 2. Do not keep them moist- let dry in between waterings. Humidity is relative and yours may be way too high. 3. Do not feed them almonds....almond oil can be toxic to insects. Avoid any nuts. 4. Your roaches diet could be better. Feed them more leafy greens vegetables (not just the same lettuce) and do not feed them celery. Try more substantial vegetables like apples, carrots, spinach, squash of any sort, occasional piece of fruit, and some small amount of fish food/dog food/cat food or something similar. 5. Do you have substrate of any sort? 6. Make sure that there is some ventilation. Can you describe the container that they live in better? Well someone told me that they thrive in high temp and humidity and also I feed them dandelions for calcium, no one ever told me almonds were deadly for them, I have coconut fiber and wood chips but its not pine, I have them in a 15 gallon tube with holes in the lid, I have a rock, a couple egg cartons cut up, a flower pot for them to hide under, a food dish and a water dish with sponges in it and a thermometer and humidity gauge so I can tell where its at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Well someone told me that they thrive in high temp and humidity and also I feed them dandelions for calcium, no one ever told me almonds were deadly for them, I have coconut fiber and wood chips but its not pine, I have them in a 15 gallon tube with holes in the lid, I have a rock, a couple egg cartons cut up, a flower pot for them to hide under, a food dish and a water dish with sponges in it and a thermometer and humidity gauge so I can tell where its at. Yes, I know. But the term "high temp" is relative depending on who you talk to. Thier native environment is a little dry but humid and they love to eat tropical cacti, and seem to do best with temps in the 80's. I wrote somewhere about "higher temps are not always better" because what you want is the optimal temperature for them, not the most or least. In captivity however, your substrate is good. Take out the rock and flower pot. Add a couple more egg cartons in big pieces if cut up. If they eat the dandelions that fine- mine wont but that does not mean anything- but do add some other leafy green vegetables. Your container is fine though I might place an occilating fan in the room to make sure (not too close to thier cage though). Be careful of the humidity guage. My experience is that most of them out there are not accurate but to within +/- 20% which is alot. Accurate ones are pretty expensive.... I had borrowed one that worked well but was $175 which is not in my budget. Mist every couple or few days works well, and you dont have to be regular with that either. I think I have pics of how mine are setup somewhere on this forum for reference of where I am coming from and what I do for perspective....others on this forum have pics up too that work as well. Are they doing any better by the way ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max93 Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 Yes, I know. But the term "high temp" is relative depending on who you talk to. Thier native environment is a little dry but humid and they love to eat tropical cacti, and seem to do best with temps in the 80's. I wrote somewhere about "higher temps are not always better" because what you want is the optimal temperature for them, not the most or least. In captivity however, your substrate is good. Take out the rock and flower pot. Add a couple more egg cartons in big pieces if cut up. If they eat the dandelions that fine- mine wont but that does not mean anything- but do add some other leafy green vegetables. Your container is fine though I might place an occilating fan in the room to make sure (not too close to thier cage though). Be careful of the humidity guage. My experience is that most of them out there are not accurate but to within +/- 20% which is alot. Accurate ones are pretty expensive.... I had borrowed one that worked well but was $175 which is not in my budget. Mist every couple or few days works well, and you dont have to be regular with that either. I think I have pics of how mine are setup somewhere on this forum for reference of where I am coming from and what I do for perspective....others on this forum have pics up too that work as well. Are they doing any better by the way ?? Not as many dying as before but i can't seem to get the humidity to go down because it is really high it lowers so slowly, i still see a few die here and there but umm this is a really important question im leaving for 10 days i need some kind of food they could survive on for ten days, and the temp is down to 85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BugmanPrice Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Not as many dying as before but i can't seem to get the humidity to go down because it is really high it lowers so slowly, i still see a few die here and there but umm this is a really important question im leaving for 10 days i need some kind of food they could survive on for ten days, and the temp is down to 85 What's the ambient humidity in your area? If you live in some areas that are humid all the time then it won't go down a lot. But if you live in an arid region and you still can't get it to drop then you need to boost your ventilation... quite a bit. I usually leave dry dog/cat/fish food in my tanks when I leave for a little while. It doesn't go moldy (if your humidity isn't cranked way up) and they eat it fairly slowly if you put enough in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max93 Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 K thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 K thanks for the help You will only need to feed them a few days worth of food, as they can go a week without food easy. I have left mine for 10 days with no food before and it was not a problem at all. An acquaintance of mine left his roaches with no food for 2 weeks at a time regularly without problems either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBJ Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 An acquaintance of mine left his roaches with no food for 2 weeks at a time regularly without problems either. What did he or she do about the roaches water needs? Can they use the water-dispensers for birds? ... Or the model with the Tampax down into a small plastic tub? Is it not always a concern especially for the nymphs? BR/ Ole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharma Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Hi Max From the way you describe their "death behavior" and your food it could in my oppinion very well be intoxication due to several reasons (besides the mentioned temp. and humidity advices). - Washing fruits is often useless because pesticides are usually highly water insoluble and accumulate in the cuticula (kind of wax on the skin, easy to feel when rubbing an apple or an orange)! Common insecticides (e.g. organophosphates and pyrethroids) kill exactely the way you described it! -> Either you use organic grown fruits, use soap ( ) and a towel to rub the 'wax' off, or just peel them. - Almonds (especially the bitter but also the seet ones) contain amygdalin (a cyanogenic glycoside) which when chewed releases prussic acid (this gives almonds their typical odor ), a highly toxic substance for insects (a lot more toxic than for vertebrates). - Don't feed too much calcium, it could lead to seizures (and death?)... I observed that when I once fed high dosed calcium chloride as a trial for "functional food" for lizzards; BAD decision! (Well, due to some hungry lizzards the roaches didn't live long enough to observe death by intoxication .) - Smaller and/or younger animals often die earlyer when intoxicated (several reasons: faster metabolism; they need to eat more relative to their size etc.). If they eat each other the toxines would accumulate and finally kill the cannibals too. - Salades are often enriched in 'bad stuff' (e.g. pesticides, nitrite/nitrate) whilst being low in 'healthy constituents'. Therefore I prefere wild grown greens/leafs/herbs instead. Good luck! Andreas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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