Roachsmith Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Adult (male I think but the wings seem really short from pics I've seen): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Hi I also belive its a male. The females are darker in color and have even smaller "wings", they are also larger than the males. Some males do not have full wings and some do. Wing biting could be one reason to this. Take care Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachfreak101 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Its definatly a male, i used to sell em on my website. That is a sub-species called pallida, where the males wings are really short, and the females even shorter. Actually in this subspecies the males are a bit darker than females. I can post a pic of the female if you like. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 How do you tell the differens between the sunbspecies? I have some problem with the identification of the different species/subspecies. Many cultures that goes under the name B. fumigata looks very different from each other. I keep the species named B. rothi and they look very different from B. fumigata. The males are allmost completely black and they are larger than B. fumigata. I also keep a unidentified Byrsotria from Cuba. They look a lot like my B. fumigata but according to the BCG they are probably a new species. Some years back I also keept a species under the name Byrsotria cabrerai. Does anyone have any good litterature or pictures that could help in the identification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Subspecies ?? So it is Byrsotria fumigata pallida ?? I did not know B. fumigata had any subspecies, although B. fumigata do look a bit like giant Phoetallia pallida (at least when looking at the pronotum). B. fumigata like many other roach species can have slightly variable morphology. Look at Blaptica dubia for example. This photo is clearly a normal male B.fumigata wing the wings chewed back. If we follow the ellipse of the outer edge at the ragged end then that would show the wings oringinally go to a normal length. The only thing we can see unusual from this photo is that his tankmates need more food, or need more protien in thier diet, or the colony is overcrowded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachfreak101 Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Hi: The main differance between Byrsotria fumigata and fumigata pallida, is that male fumigata have much darker wings, almost black. At one time in my collection, i have had: Byrsotria fumigata, fumigata pallida, and rothi. I have heard and am familyer with Byrostria cabrerai, but never had it in my collection. No, the wings of his male pallida are not chewed back, they are perfectly normal. Most people have never heard of fumigata pallida, but mostly because Europeans have alot of roach species, we are not aware of. Europe is where i got all of the above mentioned species from. Picture included is of a male fumigata, note his mostly black wings. Ken[attachment=31:Copy_of_...ata1.1am.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsc Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Awesome... nice picture. They are an interesting species.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 While I have been wrong before, I still have to disagree. The initial photo wing edges look chewed to me, not smooth-ended like the photo posted by Roachfreak101. I would like to believe there is a subspecies, but cannot find any supporting documentation. 50% of my friends live in Europe and all of them keep various critters, and neither they nor a domestic entomologist I have contacted have ever heard of a B.fumigata subspecies. However, not everyone knows everything. Where do you get this information, and where can I read the supporting papers?? Who published the subspecies? I would be interested to know more about B.f.pallida and its identifying morphology. If I can confirm there is a subspecies I might like to acquire it to round out my Blaberinae selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachsmith Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 Thanks for the replies! I was waiting to respond till I had time to dig him up again and have a look. I didn't think the wings looked chewed, but it's possible. I will have a look tonight and let you guys know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I would be very interested to know. Chipped away fumigata, or smooth but slightly 'curvy' natural short wings, potential subspecies. I still have not found any published paper addressing the issue of a Byrsotria sp. ssp. If anyone knows of this please send me the reference! Thanks. If its out there maybe I have not looked in the right place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachsmith Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 They're definitely short and curvy - not chewed. He looks just like the pic Roachfreak posted. He's the only mature male I have so I'm not sure if the others are the same. I was wondering why he didn't look like any pics of fumigata I could find. That's pretty cool if it's a subspecies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachfreak101 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I do not know where you can read the supporting papers, or who published the sub-species. I am only relaying information that i recieved. I don't pretend to be a biologist or an entomologist, so what i talk about may not be backed up by scientific papers. As far as the wings go, I was'nt denying that they looked chewed on. My issue was if you thought the wings were shorter, because you thought they were chewed back. That is what i disagree with, I believe they are normal length. Although initially they did look chewed on, apon closer inspection of the larger image, the edges look a little too uniform for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachsmith Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 Could a bad moult cause them to be shorter like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachfreak101 Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 No, if it was a bad molt the wings would be deformed. The females have even shorter wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Nope. Not a bad molt. Definately NOT chewed on either, I was way wrong on that. Interesting. Now I wonder if its a subspecies (still finding no info on that) or if its a normal B.sp. that carries a recessive deformity that may or may not consistantly show up. If you find more, then you have either a subspecies (if it is) or a genetic trait within this species. If its the latter, it would be cool to select them out and breed them until they all appear that way, and call it something like "angel wing morph" or something like that. I dont know, maybe I am being too much of a geek.... But then again, how many people would really be interested in a B.fumigata with a wing morph ??? I would, to a point, just for curiousities sake..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachfreak101 Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I talked to Orin about this and he told me he cannot find them in any database or catalog. He also said many professionals of entomology don't recognize subspecies as a whole anyways! Who knows, if not a sub-species than maybe a differant locality, or possibly a morph? Although the wings on the picture looks a little shorter than the fumigata that i know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planet Porcellio Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 I have a B fumigata culture, and it seems some of the mature males have full wings, and some have the vestigial stubs. Could it be a reaction to environmental conditions like Lubber grasshoppers have? I find it odd to have both wing types in one culture. Any ideas??? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucihormetica Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Dear friends, I am vistiting regularly Cuba and searching roaches and workingvtogether with E. Gutierrez. We both are agreed, that at the moment they are 3 different species are described up to day. Well B. fumigata has a high variation in scize, form and wings structure, also into the genitalia. I didn't know, that a subspecies "pallida" is descibed!!!! Well if anybody now, where the species with the wafe like short wings was collected, please inform me. best regards ingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachsmith Posted September 19, 2007 Author Share Posted September 19, 2007 I have three more mature males now and they all have normal long wings. I guess this guy was just odd. It will be interesting to see if any of the offspring have wings like this. They've been fighting over females and mating like crazy lately so I should have some little ones soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricktop Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I had a female adult B. fumigata that lasted me upwards of two years (as an adult!). It didn't look like i'd be getting anymore and it had no male so it ended up keeping my african giant millipede company for the last year and a half, they got along surprisingly well. Is it normal for these to last so long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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