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Nadine83

Repashy Bug Burger/Gutload

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Hello, I was wondering if anyone uses Repashy Bug Burger or the Repashy Gutload to feed Roaches. I have Madagascar hissers at the moment. I typically use Repashy for all feeder insects along with turtle reptile/amphibian foods. I have heard mixed reviews on feeding it to Roaches. Any thoughts?

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On 1/22/2017 at 4:20 PM, Nadine83 said:

Hello, I was wondering if anyone uses Repashy Bug Burger or the Repashy Gutload to feed Roaches. I have Madagascar hissers at the moment. I typically use Repashy for all feeder insects along with turtle reptile/amphibian foods. I have heard mixed reviews on feeding it to Roaches. Any thoughts?

I personally just use dog food supplemented with fruits and veggies, I'm not sure how much better those Repashy products are, or if there is even a noticeable difference between the two in terms of the overall health of the roaches. 

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3 minutes ago, Hisserdude said:

I personally just use dog food supplemented with fruits and veggies, I'm not sure how much better those Repashy products are, or if there is even a noticeable difference between the two in terms of the overall health of the roaches. 

Ok, Thanks I use Repashy for my other insects. My crickets love the stuff and do well on it. I am trying some on the roaches but I tend just to feed fresh fruits/veggies/and Rabbit/Chinchilla/and or Pigeon Pellets since I have a ton of those at my disposal, and they are cheaper. Repashy I try and reserve for feeder insects as an added boost for my reps/amps.  I just wasn't sure if anyone else has tried it with roaches. 

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2 hours ago, Nadine83 said:

Ok, Thanks I use Repashy for my other insects. My crickets love the stuff and do well on it. I am trying some on the roaches but I tend just to feed fresh fruits/veggies/and Rabbit/Chinchilla/and or Pigeon Pellets since I have a ton of those at my disposal, and they are cheaper. Repashy I try and reserve for feeder insects as an added boost for my reps/amps.  I just wasn't sure if anyone else has tried it with roaches. 

I'm sure there are some members who use the stuff for their roaches, and I'm sure it's especially good for gutloading. 

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I use Repashy Bug Burger for my dubias that I feed to my leopard geckos.   The dubias love it.  Their 2nd favorite food is fish flakes.  Carrots are a distant 3rd. 

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I use Bug Burger for my dubia and hissers, and they really seem to like it. I can't comment on its health benefits, but they devour that stuff pretty quickly. 

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I offer Repashy Bug Burger to all of my roaches and all of my Isopods.  They all seem to love it.

I do NOT have a huge roach collection and I do not breed any of my roaches for feeders.  The roaches are all pets for me.  Given my relatively small numbers of roaches and the relatively small size of the isopods I mix a "large batch" of Bug Burger every week or two and store it in the refrigerator.  It is a nutritious, convenient source of food for many of my inverts.  I also offer dried, sterilized leaves and wood to all of the isopods and many of the roaches.

The larger the container size that you purchase the cheaper it is:  https://www.store.repashy.com/bug-burger-70.4-oz.-4.4-lb-2kg-jar-wholesale-clone.html

 

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Dang wow ok, my old reply is long as heck.

I have a long response with a ton of links and quotes to do with this that might be extremely beneficial...or a massive annoyance. I haven't posted it yet, but I have it all nice and organized and written as nicely as I could get it. I tried very hard while writing to refrain from sounding like a pompous jerk and while trying my absolute best not to sound like I know everything (I don't.) and without spreading misinformation. It's got a lot of good sources worth reading though and an analysis of the ingredients and nutrition of bug burger. I might post it. I hope that's ok if it's kinda long though.

Is that ok if I do post it though, for the sake of discussion and hopefully talking more about this as a potential convenient and healthy supplement to cockroach diets?

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(HOO its getting posted anyway. Be still, my anxious heart.)

 

Okay. I got a lot of links that I've had bookmarked for my own reference, and some neat info. I don't like giving advice since I'm not experienced, but I CAN provide links that might be worth reading, quotes, and a little of my own experiences...but I don't claim to be the expert, which is why I provide the sources I do and try to start discussion. I hope that's alright.


And as a warning...as you can tell this is a LONG ass reply, with a ton of links and quotes, but I hope it's helpful to someone, and OP if you can't read it all, at least skim the links and analysis of the nutritional facts/ingredients, and the final TL;DR. Still, maybe it's worth it.

God I am really terrified of posting this though but here we go.


I really like the looks of Allen's products. I've read a few forum posts discussing a couple of the Repashy formulas, specifically Superpig as a carotenoids supplement, another regarding bug burger's use with isopods, and some mention of the difference between "bug burger" and "superload" when it comes to their use as feeder insect diets. Here's a REALLY good discussion on Superpig: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/798519-repashy-super-pig-3.html The post starts as a really misinformed discussion basically saying how it would artificially color animals and make it a dishonest practice. But I really like how Allen openly explains and discusses with other people, answers questions, and is very transparent. It's a really great post, and while it doesn't apply to bug burger, it does explain a lot of the success behind these forumulas. They are extremely well researched and proven, and not just caught out of thin air, but so saying, always take everything with a grain of salt, regardless. c:

And here's the forum post about bug burger's application with isopods: really interesting discussion, and while it's mostly for isos, it does show it is really useful for a lot of inverts in general, and has positive effects on their health and reproduction: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/129746-repashy-bug-burger-isopods.html

Reading another, shorter post on a chameleon forum, Allen does also specify that bug burger it is supposed to be an "every day" as in, staple, diet for feeder insects. To quote, "The bug burger is designed to be an every day food, and the Superload is designed to be used for final gutloading due to its very high calcium level." Superload is exactly what it sounds like, and it seems solid, but I can't find more specific and detailed posts/discussions on it. Here's the post by the way: https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/repashy-bug-burger.68317/

And an important note, there was an initial batch of bug burger that would have been harmful to roaches in the long run. It apparantly had 20% protein, and in response to the person who said their jar still listed 20%, he said: "there was only one batch of Bug Burger made (the very first batch of 100 kilos) that was 20% protein. I then changed the formula, but it took a while to get the labels changed, so if your label says 20% still, it is probably the new formula. The first batch of bug burger is long gone for sure."

And for reference, here is the ingredients list for bug burger:


"Alfalfa Meal, Flax Meal, Corn Meal, Potato Granules, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pea Protein Isolate, Dried Kelp, Calcium Carbonate, Carrageenan, Konjac, Carob Bean Gum, Guar Gum, Dried Krill, RoseHips, Cinnamon, Calendula Flower, Marigold Flower Extract, Phaffia Rhodozyma Yeast, Paprika Extract, Spirulina Algae, Turmeric, Salt, Potassium Citrate, Magnesium Gluconate, Canthaxanthin, Malic Acid, Calcium Propionate, Methylparaben, and Potassium Sorbate (as mold inhibitors), Lecithin, Rosemary Extract and Mixed Tocopherols (as preservatives), Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Choline Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta Carotene, Pantothenic Acid, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement)."


Really neat how tons of it is naturally derived and then nutritionally balanced. At least it's not primarily fillers or artificial colorings or anything. Now, looking at the "guaranteed analysis" from the place I bought it from, Josh's Frogs, please note that the information is incorrect. It seems to list the old analysis:


"GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Crude Protein min. 20%, Crude Fat min. 5%, Crude Fat max. 8%, Crude Fiber max. 12%, Moisture max. 8%, Ash max. 10%, Calcium min. 5%, Calcium max. 6%, Phosphorus min. 0.5%." [source: https://www.joshsfrogs.com/repashy-bug-burger-3-oz-jar.html]


Looking at my little jar in front of me (I'd take a picture but it's not on me right now. I can though if someone wants me to!) it says:

"GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Crude Protein min. 13%, Crude Fat min. 4%, Crude Fiber max. 12%, Moisture max. 8%, Ash max 11%, Calcium min. 4%"


It's kind of interesting that it has slight differences. Definitely worth noting. Could someone with more knowledge on roach dietary needs step in, if there is anyone? I don't want to say much besides providing links and quotes of more experienced people, so you can read those and take it with a grain of salt. While I've read some things (pfft. I say some. It's been years of researching obsessively, but while research is wonderful, it has nothing on real experience and especially proper, and reasonable, studies.) Actually dang...I just remembered this post on the forum. I read it before, it's really cool, and I'll pull some quotes. Keep in mind, this is not directly from the horse's mouth, but an individual asking questions to their professor who has been researching cockroaches "since 1966". Worth reading since the credentials are there, but since it is second-hand please take it with salt. Post is here: http://www.roachforum.com/index.php?/topic/6842-basic-roach-carediet-information-from-a-50-year-biohemistroach-researcher/#comment-39692

"[QUESTION:] Repashy.com had quoted you on their site (based on making their 'Bug Burger' better for roaches) as saying “My initial reading of your composition is that it has too much protein (>20%). 4% protein is sufficient to support Blattella germanica and if it is >20% they will accumulate waste uric acid in their fat body which could be lethal in certain situations.”
That seems to be an accurate transcription of what I have told, whoever asked me about needed protein content of a roach diet.".

I honestly didn't realize this was a specific question but wowie, it that appropriate or what? If you read the whole post, he does continue to discuss how 4% protein seems to be a "happy medium" for all ages of roaches. I am not sure though, but if someone could clarify, is it true that nymphs require more protein than adults? If so, do they regulate this on their own? In that case it might be worth offering higher protein in smaller amounts, no? I notice that seems to be the staple anyway, of dog food and a mix of fruits/vegetables/etc.. which seems similar to what was discussed in the post. It's of course also worth saying that as a ton of people here have told me/what I've read, cockroaches are very resilient, so of course their diet doesn't need to be exactly on point to keep them thriving, but there's no harm in trying to understand why some things are harmful and what frequency certain diets could/should be fed.


Comparing that to the 13% min. crude protein in bug burger, it doesn't seem that bad, but I wouldn't know exactly what the 9% difference between those two suggested amounts would actually make. I even find the 4% claims in the one post dubious, even if it is from an extremely experienced person, but it is really worth talking about, since the lines between scientific study and hobby can be distinct. Maybe we can learn from one another though, or even experiment in that regard and see if it holds any significant benefits. But that aside, back to the topic of bug burger as a frequent feed. I agree with others, in that providing a good source of protein alongside other foods is beneficial, since it offers a greater variety and choice, which can help balance their nutritional needs and intake. I'm personally hesitant to feed bug burger exclusively for the reason of its protein content and the sake of a healthy variety. Variety is the spice of life, as they say, and it's proven time and time again for many species that variety is beneficial. Still, I do like it as an occasional protein source as a substitute for dog food, in conjunction with fruits and vegetables. I only provide it once a week for all of my isopods and roaches, and when I do, I only offer that and a bit of fruit/veggie, no dog food for that day. It's definitely not harmful doing this, and mine absolutely devour it! It's a wonderful occassional food, and they really love it. The isopods especially, it's super cool watching some coming out of hiding almost instantly to pick at it, and by the next morning the little chunks I scatter for them are gone. It even brings the B. rothi out of their digging sometimes to feed right in front of me. It's really neat!

A strange note though: no one really warned me about the smell and it's really kind of weird. Like an earthy applesauce kinda? It's not unpleasant, just very strange! I also notice a 3 oz jar ($8 from Josh's Frogs with free shipping) goes a really long way when you don't have a large collection. For the price (I know you mentioned what you feed is cheap, so maybe consider this) it's honestly worth it if you want some healthy variety for your lads, or as a convenient back-up in case you're low on fresh food for some reason. No one's really said it so far, but I know when I have my health troubles and slack on their care (which I really don't want to do but it does happen...) it helps to have something to resort to when I forget to get them something fresh, or don't have the energy to prepare something nicer. Ah! And something else...I can't flipping find where I read it right now which is really annoying! But once opened, this and other supplements/foods have a 6 month shelf life. I can't remember if that's at room temperature or refrigerated, I'm sorry...I know pangea is a 1 year life in the fridge, which I always got confused with the 6 month shelf life of supplements. It has to do with certain vitamins deteriorating and losing effectiveness over time. I'll look around for the article when I can. I don't want to leave things unsourced, so I'll find it when I can. c:>


Okay okay!! I've rambled enough holy shit wow I'm sorry. Remember though, my experience is limited, so that's why I tried to dig up all the sources I used and read when writing my research notes. I try to find experienced people in the hobby (you guys, and people who comment on the forum posts with their experiences) and folks with proper education behind them so there is a variety of experienced voices, and not just me. I hope that makes sense! But still, as with everything, consume information like the Dead Sea. Okay, maybe not that bad, but always be skeptical to a degree, it's a good thing. c:


ANYWAY, HERE'S THE TL;DR: Read what other people have to say, from all the sources I've shown, read what the creator of this diet has to say for himself, read the answers from someone who has studied cockroaches in the scientific field for years, and *please* take the advice and experience of the other people on this forum too and make your own decision. Even though I have a lot of "educated in the field" sources, you need to hear it right from people who use it and see what they experience and have to say! It's so important to listen to that too. c: And as I said, I personally use it for my roaches and isopods about once a week, for a nice variety and since they enjoy it so much, and for the cost it does stretch a long way. Oh and I talk too much. Sorry about that...dang anxiety and advanced English classes for the past 7+ years do that to you, heh.

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