whowadat

Hello, I would like to resurrect this old thread which came up in a Google search....I've always kept my colonies of Domino and Question Mark separate....its not that difficult to do given that they have distinct patterns and a general size difference with Domino being larger in my experience. They were acquired some 4-5 years ago from a reputable roach breeder/aficionado. Due to colony growth I now have split those two colonies into 4...two of each species. Recently I sold a group of 12 or so of the Question Mark roaches....we always provide the largest nymphs in the colony. The buyer got back with me after a few weeks with a picture of a recently molted adult with an unusual pattern....a pattern that resembles a "flag" waving in the wind. I let them know its not uncommon to have weird patterns show up on occasion with roaches in the Therea genus. I have pictures of Therea roaches which are practically all white for example. When I went to feed/mist the colony that contained the largest nymphs....hence the one we bring to reptile shows and sell out of....I was surprised to see approximately two dozen adults all with the same "flag" pattern that the earlier buyer had shown me. As of this typing there are no adults in the colony which have the expected "?" mark pattern. There are currently over 2-3000 nymphs in this colony....I am enjoying what I refer to as a "bloom" wherein many large nymphs molt into adults at the same time. I'm gonna have a hell of a show this time next year! (and I'll earn my advanced "Roach Wrangler" badge as these guys are quick) Anyways....my first thought on seeing two dozen with all the same pattern was the possibility of Domino adults having bred with QMs inside this bin. But, the odds of that are extremely slim given my anal approach to keeping all my bins secure from other roaches and other pests like spiders and whatnot. And I thought, although the odds of a single female getting into the bin is greater then multiple females getting into the bin...given that I mist and feed these colonies weekly, if I came across a Domino in the QM bin (or visa versa) I would of immediately pulled it out....how could a single female of laid so many oothecae into the substrate in a relatively short time. I mean the adults only live 4-5 months, with feeding/misting weekly that's 16-20 opportunities for me to of seen this possible Domino female(s) and get her out of there. I've never seen an adult Therea species in the wrong tub in the 4-5 years I have kept them....never. So my questions to others is....how many ootheca(e) does a single female Question Mark/Domino roach lay during their short adult lifespan ? If these are hybrids due to one or more Domino roach females getting into the QM tub.....shouldn't I expect to see the more common '?' pattern in the vast majority of the adults within the colony ? If the colony winds up having nothing but these "flag" patterns....and I'm talking about the possibility of thousands over the next 12 months...at what point do we have a different Therea species on our hands...or at least a different "strain" like we might see with Blaberus craniifer for example ? Pictures and a link to a video available soon.... Mike

I think its all related to diet...I've seen up close and personal two large tubs...4' long tubs, full of "golden" dubia....when I asked what he had been feeding them, he stated "Honey Nut Cheerios" and had fed them that solely for like 3-4 years. I've also seen in my own Orangehead colonies that if you feed them Cantaloupe, the nymphs will become an almost "emergency cone" orange color...and stay that color for quite some time.

I had a short message experience with Orin McMonigle....I was surprised to see him state that he had never seen the UCR strain of Blaberus craniifer It left me wondering if he was politely suggesting there wasn't two different strains, or if he actually had never come across them in his travels/research. I keep two colonies, one purchased through a friend as UCR he got from Kyle at Roach Crossing, and another I got here on this forum from Marcus Q out of California....I get a headache seeing variations in pronotum pattern definitions and size of the roach leaving me wondering if there really are two strains.....I guess I have never actually come across any of those named after Orin M and would need to in order to see the differences side by side.

Well, poultry feed....every variety....non-medicated, organic, non-gmo....all have DL Methionine in it. (many have Diatomaceous Earth too...another known pesticide) Poultry feed producers put it in there purposely because it makes for meatier poultry, and the birds grow faster. A read of the patent by the University of Florida clearly shows its effects on insects/larvae with an alkaline gut physiology.....this includes the cockroach. With all due respect, noting your extensive experience, line breeding for the Blaptica dubia cockroach is an urban myth. If there was any genetic diversity within the Blaptica dubia species...Mother Nature would of revealed it herself by now. I've seen with my own eyes what years of feeding nothing but Cheerios can do to the coloration of all the Dubia instars including adults. I purchased two large colonies of approximately 3000 breeding females which were fed nothing but Cheerios....when I started to feed them cat food (this was about 8-9 years ago when cat food was the go to chow ingredient) the very first generation of offspring which eventually molted into adults all became dark and glossy just like the thousands of others I had. I've also seen with my own eyes what feeding nothing but poultry feed does.....I purchased 25,000 females with the vast majority all being the size of a quarter....notice the coin in my pic for reference. Many hundreds had the blisters. The blistered roaches don't live long at all, and are predominately seen on the females. There is something I coined "white wing" disease...I used to barter supplies for other people's Dubia..."used to" being the key phrase. I seen perfectly formed wings that were white/translucent, or the perimeter of the wing if not the edge of the entire body was translucent. I attributed it to molting issues possibly due to a lack of humidity. But the nymphs never grew really, they were flat and sickly looking. The adults seem to perish prematurely also, although that was harder to determine because I wasn't getting into the breeding bins daily or cleaning them out but once every 60 days during a harvest. It got to be such a concern of mine, weeding out sickly looking roaches before selling them, that I began to quarantine all roaches' I acquired in trade. Primarily there was three people I bartered with, and one in particular really had a lot of these white wing issues. I asked her what she was feeding and she proudly proclaimed poultry feed. The other two also had some poultry feed in their chow, one also served a lot of veggies and fruits, but this woman fed nothing but poultry feed right out of the bag. The thing about DLM noted in the patent and elsewhere is that it stays in the genetics for 3 generations..one spraying and it keeps on working for 3 generations. Its really an amazing pesticide that doesn't affect the plant/fruit...it only targets the pest hence the "green" moniker. The roaches I got from this lady continued to have these issues while I bred them...and fed them poultry feed. Understand, I didn't know anything about DL Methionine at the time...I actually started to feed my own in house bred roaches poultry feed. I thought my husbandry was the issue. (even though I had been breeding for 7-8 years before acquiring these roaches) Once I became aware of the problems with poultry feed, through this large Dubia female purchase but also through this need to "manage" an inventory as my business grew...I stopped feeding poultry feed and began experimenting with other products....and the experimental ingredient list is long. In 2019 I stopped feeding poultry feed and today, finally, I don't see any blistering on my bugs...I still see some deformed wings....the key word being "deformed" which is caused by a bad molt. I attribute this to the 3 generation effect caused by DLM which has finally run its course through my colonies. I no longer accept anyone else's bugs in trade. I have actually bought bugs from other known sellers, and have seen blistering and white wing issues as they grew...which I attribute to them using poultry feed in their chow. I know it sounds crazy but I believe I can tell you who is feeding poultry feed and who is not just by looking at their roaches..... Folks tend to look for big red flags...but you would have to understand how DL Methionine works...this "green" pesticide doesn't reveal itself through a massive die off.....it primarily affects reproduction and growth rates. Breeding Blaptica dubia is my livelihood, and over the last 10 years I have done some serious experimenting. I humbly submit...until you have to manage an inventory supplying stores, breeders, reptile shows, and the internet...you really have no clue what is going on in a colony. The ol' look ma...that's a heckuva lot of bugs in there "eye ball" test doesn't reveal much. If you don't believe me take the 5k challenge....take 5,000 baby Dubia nymphs and put them in a 10 gallon sterilite...(we use 7.5)...feed them your Purina poultry feed. (if I recall one of their products is outrageously high in unnecessary protein and calcium too - their bag labeling/design is terrible you can't be sure which product you are getting) Take another 5K into a similarly sized container and feed them fresh fruits and veggies...or a dry chow like ours which contains Oat Groats, Wheat Germ, and Barley...all fit for human consumption. 30 days later count them and share your results.... Please...I sincerely want to know....what benefit do you think your roaches are receiving by feeding them poultry feed ? I'm hard pressed to think that anyone would want their critters to be fed a bug that has in essence been gut loaded with a pesticide..... There is a better way.....a healthier way.

I hear and see about this all the time.....first off thank you to guys like Hisserdude who correctly point out that there has been no imports of Dubia for years, and there is only one "modern" species in the Blaptica dubia genus....apparently others were noted in a writing made I think it was the 1800s but lord knows what they actually were given that there was no photos and we have advanced by leaps and bounds our understanding of cockroach species since then. I first seen "golden" dubia about 9 years ago.....I purchased from a small breeder a large colony of Dubia wherein all the males had light goldish colored wings, and all the nymphs were much lighter than normal. Do you want "golden" dubia too ???? Feed them Cheerios...that's right.....these different coloration "strains" are 100% due to diet...change the diet....you'll change the visual coloration traits. This guy had fed them nothing but Cheerios for years....there is no "strain" that can be weeded out of its genetics...as noted Dubia don't hybridize. Outside of diet, every single Dubia roach is genetically the same as all the others....carbon copies if you will. Adding "bloodlines" offers no benefit and actually can cause more harm. I mean is anyone quarantining their new arrivals for 30 days before adding them to their colony ? The only diversity is what I call "Dietetic Diversification"...you want higher reproduction rates and less premature death....change their diet. (and it make take several generations to accomplish) Thank you to the comments which talked about the causes of bad molts....it has nothing to do with humidity and every thing to do with damage inflicted to the wings immediately after emerging. The number one cause of deformed wings is overcrowding wherein newly molted males are run over by the crowd, followed by intentional attacks by other males. Also, large wing species tend to have more problems with wing deformities which I attribute to the time it takes for the large wings to harden. Humidity will play a role in say my Giant Peppered cockroach colony.....but they are completely different from Dubia...its like comparing apples to oranges Blisters...thank you to Hisserdude who noted these blisters are filled with hemolymph...i.e..blood...that doesn't come from any molting issue.....usually you'll find them on females which really don't have wing issues. Here's the deal....poor genetics, or should I say altered genetics are the cause of these blisters. And where does this altered genetics come from....diet....more specifically...poultry feed used in roach chow. How does it work...through a man-made synthetic chemical put into all the poultry feeds found in the USA...DL Methionine.....its a synthetic amino acid put in poultry feed, and other feeds purposely and/or by happenstance, which creates meatier birds quicker...and problems for insects with an alkaline gut physiology. Specifically mosquitos, termites, and cockroaches. (many larvae and other pests found in grain storage facilities) By problems, I'm talking about DL Methionine having been researched and patented as a Pesticide by the University of Florida. A read of that patent and associated research found elsewhere on the 'net notes at concentrations of .06% can achieve 30% mortality rates in 1st and 2nd instar nymphs. It also makes for smaller females with smaller brood counts, slow growth of nymphs, and the aforementioned premature death of 1st n 2nd instar nymphs. I have personal experience with all of it via the purchase of 25,000 Dubia females which were fed nothing but poultry feed their entire lives by the previous breeder. The vast majority were no bigger then the size of a quarter, died within 6-8 months, and never reproduced at a rate higher than the single digits in 500 count breeder colonies. The kicker...this "green" pesticide affects the genetics of Dubia offspring for 3 generations. Its an awesome pesticide for orange growers not affecting the plant or the fruit. Annnnd, natural Methionine is known as a limiting protein....if you have a wooden bucket made from slats, natural Methionine would be the shortest slat in the bucket hence it is "limiting" the amount of water that can go in it. Make the methionine slat longer, and the bucket can hold more water. BUT, in the process of making the methionine slat longer, it has a growing effect on related amino acid proteins like Histidine. What does Histidine do...it creates "histamine" as a reaction to inflammation. What happens when you get too much Histamine in your system...you can go into anaphylactic shock and die....that's why we have "anti-histamines". I believe the blisters are caused by raised levels of Histidine brought upon by raised levels of Methionine brought upon by the addition of a synthetic chemical called DL Methionine which is a known patented pesticide. Also, Methionine and Histidine along with one other whose name escapes me are sulphur based proteins...Sulphur is one of, if not the oldest pesticide known to man. DLM has been sprayed on stored grain for decades to control pests in that environment. This is why I call the noting of it in ingredient lists for say Guinea Pig food, Tortoise feed, dog food, etc....as happenstance. If I make dog food and buy "fodder" from a grain mill that has sprayed DLM on stored grain, I have to include their ingredient list with my product. If a 30% mortality rate amongst 1st and 2nd instar nymphs is acceptable to you, then by all means keep putting poultry feed into your Dubia roach chow. If not, then realize there is a better way, a natural way using grains/cereals fit for human consumption. Along with a varied diet of fresh fruit and vegetables offered throughout the week. I can also link interested parties to a study noting adult roaches no longer need protein, they are processing stored uric acid into proteins. They need carbohydrates.....specifically in a 1 to 8 P:C ratio. (protein to carbs) This ratio the study notes is optimal for the highest brood counts and results in higher levels of three different pheromones put off by males which drive the ladies crazy. Ignorance is not bliss.....the bedrock of all knowledge is based in a 3 letter word....WHY? https://patents.google.com/patent/US7181884

Hello, I have been railing about this for the last year....stop feeding poultry feed, medicated, unmedicated, organic, non-gmo....all of it. Poultry feeder manufacturers add a synthetic chemical known as DL Methionine which replicates the natural "methionine" found in the DNA of most if not all of God's creatures. Natural methionine is a needed amino acid protein....known as a "limiting" AAP because it limits the other AAPs found in nature's genetics. Imagine a wooden bucket made up of slats if you will, methionine is the shortest slat of the buck "limiting" its ability to hold water. If you increase the slat length, which is what the synthetic version DL Methionine does, you increase the ability of the bucket to hold more water. DLM is put into poultry feed to increase the proteins allowing for faster growing and meatier birds. The problem is DLM has been patented by the University of Florida as a pesticide. It targets pests with an alkaline gut physiology including mosquitos, termites, cockroaches, and other insects and larvae. It has been sprayed on stored grain for decades, which is why you will find it in tortoise food, guinea pig food, rabbit feed, the list is long. By law the producers of all these other feeds have to include the "ingredient list" of their suppliers, in their own ingredient lists. Having been sprayed on stored grain, grain which is used to make these other products, you will find DLM in these other products. I recently found it in my cat's food. There is the concept of "concentration" levels.....I make the assumption that products made with stored grain that has had DLM sprayed on it, has less concentrations of DLM than poultry feed which actually puts DLM into their product. Its a positive addition to market via advertising if you make poultry feed...not so good if you feed roach. (ahem...Mazuri...whom I've contacted and was surprised at their e-mailed reply) If you read the patent application, which was granted, concentration levels of .01 % were enough to immobilize and kill larvae affecting orange grove trees. These types of pesticides are known as "green" pesticides because they only target specific pests leaving the host healthy, last up to 3 generations in the genetics of the pests, making them a great pesticide and cheap. They greatly affect the 1st and 2nd instars, slow the growth of nymphs, and limit the reproduction of breeding females. Having bred and sold Dubia roaches for the last 10 years I can attest to another aspect, the females tend to be smaller...like not much bigger than a quarter. There are other consequences to raising methionine levels in the bucket....like raising other amino acid proteins like Histidine...which is responsible for creating "histamine"....we all know why we take anti-histamines right ??? I learned about DLM through an experience in early 2018 wherein I purchased 25,000 dubia females.....its quite the story but the vast majority were all small, had issues I have come to call "white wing" disease which is often pawned off as a molting issue, and "blistering" which I believe is caused by the increase in Histidine levels. (referenced in a text book about Zoology I believe it was) Within 6 months all of the purchased adult bugs were dead with not much reproduction at all, and the thousands of nymphs I had acquired began to mysteriously disappear. I would take 10K and place them in a tub all their own thinking that 30 days later I would have some smalls, 60 days later mediums, etc.....we vended 28 reptile shows in 2019 so a managed inventory was important. I thought...my God...I have forgotten how to grow Dubia roaches. I had done this experiment multiple times with the same mysterious loss of nymphs. If you consider our tubs aren't really more than an Easy Bake oven with a clean up crew...the lack of carcasses isn't all that mysterious. I talked with other breeders both large and small and was hearing about similar disappearances. Many if not all were feeding poultry feed if not alone then mixed with something else..... It wasn't until 6 months after the bugs died that I began to look at diet...the seller had told me when I purchased them he had fed nothing but poultry feed for years...sang its praises so much that I too started to feed my other dubia which numbered around 10K at the time, poultry feed too. They also died off prematurely but at the time I did not know with confidence their age to begin with.....that's how I got on the trail of DL Methionine. Today....our chow is completely pesticide free...you can eat it yourself...and I have done it in front of many people at shows as a testament to my claim. It contains barley, not the sprouted kind which can go rancid and not "pearled" barley that has had its bran power washed off of it basically. It also contains oat groats and wheat germ. We also dehydrate our own fruit as store bought dried fruit has had Sulphur or Sulphur Dioxide sprayed on it to retain its original color. Sulphur is the oldest pesticide known to man. I can tell you more about the needs of Dubia adults being different than growing adults and the benefits of a 1 to 8 protein to carbohydrate diet for preproduction. Thats a whole 'nother story.... https://patents.google.com/patent/US7181884 Mike

Poultry Feed has DL Methionine in it....a "green" pesticide patented by the university of Florida. It targets insects with an alkaline gut physiology including mosquitos. termites, larvae like caterpillars, and our beloved cockroach amongst others. Its been sprayed on stored grain for years to control pests. Its used to increase protein levels making meatier and faster growing birds.... Patent Link

Bananas and my homemade roach chow.....

I'm so glad this issue has been brought up....having bred Dubia for the last 12 years I have unequivocally stated that by introducing "new" blood lines you are apt to introduce negatives rather than a positive. My argument was based upon my own experience purchasing a very large collection and bartering other people's roaches with my supplies....I give them chow they give me roaches. I began to see health issues with other people's roaches....primarily smaller females, lack of production, premature death. I also noted that the current dubia population was introduced 20+ years ago and all dubia have the same bloodlines.....assuming that nothing has been introduced from the wild in any significant numbers. So when a group of FaceBookers thought they would share males amongst themselves in order to strengthen bloodlines via diversity....my point of view went over like a Led Zeppelin. The only diversity I have encountered is what I call "diet diversity".....feed your dubia nothing but cheerios and they will begin to look much lighter....feed them poultry feed which contains the patented pesticide DL Methionine and you'll get a bunch of health issues...including the aforementioned ones with females becoming adults in sizes no bigger than a quarter....so, just like all animals, imho should you purchase a group of roaches...quarantine them before adding them to your general population.....I've read that some pesticides can stay in the colony for up to 3 generations.....

Chick starter has DL Methionine in it...a man made synthetic chemical meant to replicate naturally occurring "Methionine" which is one of the essential amino acid proteins necessary for most life here on earth. It has been patented by the University of Florida as a "green" pesticide targeting insects with an alkaline gut physiology including termites, mosquitos, caterpillar/larvae, and our beloved cockroach....among others. It has been sprayed on stored grain for years, hence the reason you will find it in everything from Guinea Pig food, to Tortoise food. Its primary addition is to poultry feed which makes meatier and faster growing birds. They created DL Methionine because the naturally occurring "Methionine" is known as a limiting amino acid protein, and our bodies don't create it...it must be introduced via diet. If you imagine a wooden bucket comprised of slats, Methionine is the shortest slat making up the bucket thereby "limiting" the amount of water it can hold. By increasing Methionine the bucket can hold more water...i.e..protein. Problems occur because by increasing Methionine, you also increase other amino acid proteins like Histidine...anyone care to guess what Histidine does ???.....It creates Histamine…..why do we have "anti-histamines" ??? Because too much Histamine creates a rash, blisters, itching, etc....even life threatening anaphylactic shock. Given my experience of breeding approximately 10,000 female Dubia, which were fed cat food pretty much for years. And then I purchased 25,000 female Dubia which were fed nothing but poultry feed their entire lives, I believe the blisters are a side effect of DL Methionine and the resulting increase of Histidine, and protein levels which is not helpful for adult Dubia. Now, I can not recall ever seeing this blistering or "white wing" disease, another defect I encountered in the 25K purchase but never before in my house stock. And I seen a lot of it in the 25K group.....primarily, if not entirely, in freshly molted females...and on wings of males. (can't be sure if they were freshly molted or not) The other really strange thing about the 25K group was at least 90% of all the adult females were small, barely larger than a quarter. They were all dead within 6 months, and issues continued with their offspring for another year. I've since read that one of the great things about these green pesticides is that they can stay in the colony for up to 3 generations...a little bit of pesticide goes a loooong way. I've linked to the patent application by the University of Florida, you have to dig around and read a lot of scientific jargon, but there is quite a bit of corroborative evidence/research which notes DL Methionine primarily effects 1st thru 3rd instars, causes slower growth and smaller adults, and interferes with the reproduction rates of breeding females. As an aside.....Methionine, Cysteine, Homocysteine, and Taurine are the 4 common sulfur containing amino acids. Methionine and cysteine may be considered to be the principal sulfur-containing amino acids with Methionine being the initiating amino acid in the synthesis of virtually all eukaryotic proteins. Does everyone know what Sulphur is/does.....its the oldest pesticide known to man. When you feed poultry feed containing DL Methionine you are feeding your roaches a triple whammy....first a patented pesticide, second increasing levels of histamine, and third you are adding Sulphur to their diet....another known pesticide. There is a better way..... https://patents.google.com/patent/US7181884

Yes we do….nymphs up to fresh adults....can I link to my website ? (not sure if its against the rules)

I wouldn't argue your point, however my experience has been 180 degrees opposite. We vended 28 shows last year and seen a lot of folks selling Hissers.....they were always much more expensive than what we were selling them for....10 for 15.00 dollars. I had one guy tell me how mine were hybrids and his were pure stock based upon the size of his compared to mine. I let it pass.... however what he failed to note is that he wasn't selling any of his Hissers at his price point and that's why his were larger, they were older. It wasn't the first time I heard another vendor claim his were the real deal hence the higher price. I've seen something similar with Death Heads.... one guy in Nashville was claiming his was the larger Riverside morph and hence their 10.00 a piece price tag. When I asked them where he got them from...he couldn't tell me. Folks who know their stock....know exactly where they got them from in my experience.....most are rather anal about it.

I have bred literally thousands of Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches for the last 8 years. I purchased close to 5K from a guy in Ohio....the concept of purity or hybridized never entered our negotiation as I didn't care. They have never been added to, I have sold thousands in this time and continue to sell them at shows and our website as "hybrids" because I have no idea if they were pure or not. Given where I got them, and the 3" plus size they achieve as they age, and what I believe to be a very consistent color and pattern, I don't think they are hybrids...but again I don't know. I have seen a very dark morph, almost black, but I believe that dark color is either related to diet, or just a variation of the norm. The overwhelming majority of our customers, either are unaware that these might by hybrids, or couldn't care less......the idea that the vast majority of Mad Hissers that are out there come from just a small group of Hissers that were hybridized, hence all their off spring are hybrids. Or that people are out there right now trying to hybridize for reasons I can't comprehend, makes me think that the only people who care about purity are those trying to charge more for bugs that are becoming more and more common and cheaper. jmho

Hello, we've been breeding Hissers for about 7-8 years now. We vend at reptile shows and have a lot of kids, and adults, wanting to hear the Hissers hiss....I grab a male by the legs and give them a light shake. They try to pull away and pretty much in the process start hissing up a storm....if they are cold they don't tend to hiss much. I'm talking about the roaches not the kids..... 🙂 Mike