Sleepy Lemur Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Hello, I recently bought some hissers labeled as "G. Portentosa", however they look like they may be hybrids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Lemur Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hisserdude Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm fairly certain those are hybrids, most "G.portentosa" nowadays are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Lemur Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 That's a bummer these are my first hisser species, quite disappointed they could in fact be hybrids. I really want to keep only pure culture (if that's possible). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hisserdude Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Kyle at roachcrossing.com has 100% pure G.portentosa stock, here's a link. http://www.roachcrossing.com/for-sale/roach/all/common-hisser/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Lemur Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 I recently ordered 3 different hisser sp. from Kyle (was very happy with my craniifer), but yeah, I'll be buying from Kyle and the knowledgable people here from now on. I realize hybrids are frowned upon, and want to do my part in keeping only pure cultures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allpet Roaches Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Please make sure you mark yours hybrids, especially if you sell or trade them. I'm pretty sure the portentosa stock Kyle got from me and it is older than the new "species" plus I've made efforts to keep it pure (it's not that difficult to mess up a culture if you keep multiple Gromphadorhina). I'll assume Kyle has as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Lemur Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 I will do that. I'll likely end up culling them or giving them to a friend as feeders, they won't make their way into the hobby any further. Coming from the tarantula hobby, hybrids are frowned upon there too (some people were hybridizing pokies) and i brought that with me into new hobbies. All of my hissers are kept in airtight containers with small aluminum screen and a Vaseline barrier to prevent any escapees. I also won't be keeping any two species that could hybridize near each other, or even on the same rack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 How does anyone know they are not pure? Unless someone collects wild specimens and compares DNA you can't look and say they are or aren't pure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hisserdude Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 The pure stock in the hobby has little striping as adults, and they are normally orange, not dark brown or black. Though it is possible wild populations could have darker strains, I do not believe any have been imported in recent years, so any dark ones like these in the hobby are most likely hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 The pure stock in the hobby has little striping as adults, and they are normally orange, not dark brown or black. Though it is possible wild populations could have darker strains, I do not believe any have been imported in recent years, so any dark ones like these in the hobby are most likely hybrids. Illegal importing happens all the time so it's possible people could be doing that to add vigour and you need to understand that color can vary naturally we all know how diet and humidity has been shown to affect Hisser colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Lemur Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm no expert, but these seem to have some G. grandidieri in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hisserdude Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Nah, probably hybrids between the two species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCrackerpants Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Wouldn't you need to analyze the roaches genitalia to verify the species? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Lemur Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Nah, probably hybrids between the two species. That's what I meant Now that I'm fairly certain they are hybrids, they will be given to a friend as feeders within the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allpet Roaches Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Wouldn't you need to analyze the roaches genitalia to verify the species? No, the reason the various Gromphadorhina and the "princisia" interbreed is all the male genitalia is the same. Species descriptions are based almost entirely on horn/pronotum structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hisserdude Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 That's what I meant Now that I'm fairly certain they are hybrids, they will be given to a friend as feeders within the week. Oh, I see. Sorry lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCrackerpants Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 No, the reason the various Gromphadorhina and the "princisia" interbreed is all the male genitalia is the same. Species descriptions are based almost entirely on horn/pronotum structure. Wow! Really!?!? That seems so subjective. It would be cool if someone ran the DNA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCrackerpants Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Here is the only even loosely related research article I could find: Roth et al. BMC Evolutionary Biology 2009 9:50 doi:10.1186/1471-2148-9-50 http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/9/50/ Figure 3 and 4 are interesting: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/9/50/figure/F3 http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/9/50/figure/F4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Sucks they get fed off, cause they aren't pure. I can list so many exotic animals you buy in pet stores that are hybrids and people don't kill them off. It's a waste other people would buy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hisserdude Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Yes, but we don't want them getting mixed up with the pure-breds, and we don't want to spread them around the hobby listed as G.portentosa, which most people would do to make a quick buck, (Not anyone on this forum or in the hobby, just the big feeder chains that don't care what species they are selling, just that they sell.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Lemur Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Sucks they get fed off, cause they aren't pure. I can list so many exotic animals you buy in pet stores that are hybrids and people don't kill them off. It's a waste other people would buy them. It's a matter of personal preference. I want to keep pure cultures only. I I sold them off there is a chance someone else will try to pass them off as pure G. Portentosa, and further add to the confusion. The least I can do is try to keep pure stock without adding to the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 It's a matter of personal preference. I want to keep pure cultures only. I I sold them off there is a chance someone else will try to pass them off as pure G. Portentosa, and further add to the confusion. The least I can do is try to keep pure stock without adding to the confusion. Unless your running Noah's ark or an endangered species breeding program does it really matter if roaches are pure, that's my whole point, especially if they are going to be fed off or kept as pets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Lemur Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Yes it does matter.. If I decided to sell off, or make a trade with my extras with a fellow roach enthusiast, I doubt he'd be happy unboxing a hybrid portentosa. Granted mine are just for pets at the moment, but how do we enjoy and compare species-specific features (markings, pronotum) if they've all been hybridized? The current B. Craniifer/blaberus hybrid situation is a great example of what happens with hybrids are put back into circulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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