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mikeee

applying for usda permits to ship roaches

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Hi All,

I was just wondering if anyone has officially applied for permits to ship roaches? I submitted my ppq526 applications in april of this year and they are all under scientific review. They said it takes an average of 80-90 days to get a response and still no word. I've tried contacting the local amphis and usda offices and they keep refering me to the main office in Maryland which keeps telling each state does their own reviews and each states workload varies. I just dont want to get penalized or in trouble shipping roaches, or does eveyone ship without permits? Any feedback would be appreciated TYVM. :rolleyes:

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I just want to make sure all is legit if i end up doing a roach business, i can understand not getting permits for hobbyist or collectors that ship very little, but if i plan to do it for an income as a business i want to do it legit.

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Yeah, I've never shipped on a large scale. You can always email some of the dealers and ask if they have permits and how they got them.

.... Some of them have state to state permits depending on the state (only a few at that, as some states will not issue permits), most have no permits.

Posting threads like this will bring the USDA and APHIS to your door, denying you in person the permits that you can never get approved for anyway. You can ONLY obtain permits if you FIRST become a USDA approved holding facility. Generally they will not grant facility status to any residence. So to begin with you need to lease commercial property, bring it up to USDA containment code, develop containment protocol for the facility, then apply for approval, and then apply for a permit once/if you are approved to do so. Then you may or may not get approved for the shipping permits.

Simply put.

FYI, the federal government has the software to find posts containing these topics, and they can easily get warrants to monitor your emails.

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FYI, the federal government has the software to find posts containing these topics, and they can easily get warrants to monitor your emails.

Are you serious? That's a bit over the top, don't you think...?

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Are you serious? That's a bit over the top, don't you think...?

NO. I have had quite an experience personally with government agents who had copies of emails and pics I had emailed to a friend regarding roaches PRIOR to a trip I made last year to Costa Rica. Unless they came into my house when I was not home and figured out my password to my PC and then printed it all out on my printer, left, and then came back to show me these pages......

How else do you think they got that info? Now when I leave town and come back I make sure to even scrub the soil from my shoes much less have anything remotely organic on my person/ in my belongings. The USDA/APHIS is a branch of the Homeland Security office for the past few years, so they can go to greater lengths than they did before. The flip side is that now they are very overburdened and understaffed to go after everyone.

On an aside: The whole permitting thing is a REAL sore spot with me. It is just as fair as it is not and makes for a very tangled mess for the average citizen. The government has legitamate reasons for everything they do, but many of them are blanket and not specific so it creates alot of grey areas that need/should be defined.

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I would very much like to agree with that statement.

On an aside: The whole permitting thing is a REAL sore spot with me. It is just as fair as it is not and makes for a very tangled mess for the average citizen. The government has legitamate reasons for everything they do, but many of them are blanket and not specific so it creates alot of grey areas that need/should be defined.

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Can any of you guys put this procedure into a "step by step" process to get it done right ?

Basically if you set up a website like many of these dealers have than you should probably be legit right?

Good topic and great thread so far.

-Ian

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Pretty much all of the dealers with websites do not have permits.

Permits are difficult if not impossible to acquire.

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Pretty much all of the dealers with websites do not have permits.

Permits are difficult if not impossible to acquire.

It's funny that you say this because I ordered 3 batches from 3 different online sites. The only one that came w/ markings other than fragile on their box was Blaberus.com. Which by the way were the best roaches by far! They were a little on the small side but healthy and fat. I'm guessing that I have a better shot at getting a liquor license than a permit to sell any kind of animal.

Thanks for the info Matt.

-Ian

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Well, thanks for the info guys, looks like getting permits are practically impossible.

So i assume that James at Blaberus is about the only one with legit permits and he said it took almost a year to get em all, i'll just keep going through the correct steps and see what happens. Once again,Thanks all :(

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It's a shame with the way they monitor forums like this that one of them won't simply post the information to help us stay as law-abiding as possible.

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It is a very complicated issue to deal with from either side. There are a LOT of bad apples that spoil it all for the rest of us, so the regulations are to accomodate them. Rules are a little in the grey area and require understanding that is diffucult to put into language that can be posted without some knucklehead taking something out of context and then the government legal branch that wrote it becomes liable for all sorts of things.

It's like a 15 inch hairball in a 2 inch drain....

But genrealy speaking, all the rules are posted on the governments website.....

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Hi All,

I was just wondering if anyone has officially applied for permits to ship roaches? I submitted my ppq526 applications in april of this year and they are all under scientific review. They said it takes an average of 80-90 days to get a response and still no word. I've tried contacting the local amphis and usda offices and they keep refering me to the main office in Maryland which keeps telling each state does their own reviews and each states workload varies. I just dont want to get penalized or in trouble shipping roaches, or does eveyone ship without permits? Any feedback would be appreciated TYVM. :rolleyes:

Try calling the State Plant Health Directors office regarding your permit(s) in California. All permits applied for have to run through thier director to sign off on....

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Thanks Matt,

i havent tried them yet, I tried the usda in Lnacaster which is our local amphis office, but ill try what you suggested. Thanks again

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It is a very complicated issue to deal with from either side. There are a LOT of bad apples that spoil it all for the rest of us, so the regulations are to accomodate them. Rules are a little in the grey area and require understanding that is diffucult to put into language that can be posted without some knucklehead taking something out of context and then the government legal branch that wrote it becomes liable for all sorts of things.

It's like a 15 inch hairball in a 2 inch drain....

But genrealy speaking, all the rules are posted on the governments website.....

I was just going over this w/ some people on one of my snake forums. Florida for instance has strict rules regarding the ownership of many species of reptiles. The problem w/ setting up these rules and regulations is the simple fact that the bad apples don't care. They are still going to be doing what they do regardless of the penalties. All the rest of the people such as Mikee who want to do it right suffer for absolutely nothing.

In all honesty the people watching this site and others like it on the internet put way too much time into nailing down where the next rogue shipment of roaches are coming from. Probably a good reason why a bunch of terrorists just waltzed into a couple airports, hi jacked 4 planes, and flew them into a few buildings killing thousands of innocent people. But at least no one was shipping roaches illegally that day!

-Ian

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Now this thread gets entertaining!

... strict rules regarding the ownership of many species ... bad apples ...doing what they do regardless ...suffer for absolutely nothing...shipping roaches illegally that day!

-Ian

Every so often I like to speak on the other side of the topic, not to antagonize anyone but to promote a full perspective and conversation. It can be fun to sometimes "take the other side".

".... the bad apples don't care. They are still going to be doing what they do regardless of the penalties."

Sad but very true.

Let me play the devils advocate in this thread:

However, further implementation of the regulations eventually makes it difficult for them to not get caught, and the government officials are aware that it is at the expense of innocent hobbiest (much to thier regret). The regulations are not to needlessly punish the legitamate hobbiests and they are open to suggestions.

Despite this, nobody has come up with a better idea or legislative tool that can stem the flow of illegal wildlife and better the abilities of the legitimate hobbiest. It is a very complicated issue to address. Add to that the lack of efforts of the hobby in general to vote, or nominate elected officials based on thier views, or petition elected officials to put into place bills that better regulate the hobby in favor of the hobbiest and what you get in my opinion is reptile, bug, bird, or whatever hobbiest that complain or moan at the last minute but nobody ever takes a pre-emptive lead.

What needs to happen is to have wildlife-related hobbies band together and form an organization/active body/legal entity that makes our hobbies an important issue to elected officials. I think the reality of that happening is slim to none so my choice is to just live within the system.

"In all honesty the people watching this site and others like it on the internet put way too much time into nailing down where the next rogue shipment of roaches are coming from. Probably a good reason why a bunch of terrorists just waltzed into a couple airports, hi jacked 4 planes, and flew them into a few buildings killing thousands of innocent people. But at least no one was shipping roaches illegally that day! "

Now this statement is a few cans of worms opened in and unto itself.

To be fair: the aforementioned "people watching this site" have no training or abilities that can help with anything other than to protect US native wildlife and crops. So tracking down rogue roach shipments, imported millipedes, giant snails, etc., is the job they can get and the job they can do. I am sure, Ian, that there are jobs you can get and others you can't based on the skill set you personally have, right?

As a caucasian American who appreciates America, who has spent time in Muslim America-hating communities in foreign lands, I can personally say that "why a bunch of terrorists just waltzed into a couple airports, hi jacked 4 planes, and flew them into a few buildings killing thousands of innocent people" was because of two reasons.

One, our own constitution prohibits our government from being everywhere all the time where they may need to be to identify and prevent these situations from occurring as well as not enough people choose to go to work for the government to help enforce what our constitution does provide for. (undermanned)

Second, the terrorists that attack the USA hate us for one fundamental reason: We have a tendancy to disrespect each other. Road rage, gang wars, political mud-slinging, female celebrities showing off thier lack of underware for attention in the media, reality show hoopla and so on and so on. That's it. If America would learn to develope peaceful relationships within itself, we would not have the terrorist issues we face.

Lastly, on 9/11 roaches probably were shipped illegally along with over 40,000 other packages from unknown destinations carrying non-permitted wildlife.

:o;)

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Matt, I'm really getting to like reading your responses here on the forums more and more. You take what is said, think about it and return w/ a volley of legitimate proportion. And though playing devils advocate isn't going to get one the glory. It may solve problems within communities down the line.

You are absolutely right. We talk a good game but when it comes right down to it no one has an alternative solution to the problem. You did mention banning together and I recently heard an interview on Reptile radio w/ my bud Kev McCurley from NERD up my way in NH and he suggested the same exact idea you just did. Setting a plan like that in motion would take a lot of tenacity on the little guys parts. Namely us!

As for the last statement. I like throwing that out there to jostle things up a bit. Though I truly believe someone, somewhere made a HUGE mistake that day. I'm from Massachusetts and it sorta hit home when I heard that a couple from the next town over from me (North Attleboro) was on one of those planes. I didn't know them but they lived like next door to me. Anyway to save the thread and get it back on track. I'm not a conspiracy theorist or someone who hates America. I love America but don't trust a soul in the US government as far as I can throw them. The whole 9/11 episode for me leaves me a bitter taste w/ our government and if I could I'd throw it back in their face every chance I got. Plus don't think that I judge all Muslims just because of a few "Bad Apples". No religion promotes violence and killing innocent people.

Alright back on track w/ this topic! Sorry to open that can o' worms.

-Ian

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:P:P Would you believe,

I finally got a response for a USDA APHIS permit from Az,Il,ND,Pa,Va from my applications i submitted april of this year. Would you believe the response is for Gromphadorhina portentosa and NO PERMIT IS REQUIRED for

interstate movement, but so far just the hissers. Progress, I guess. Thanks again for all the input guys.

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:angry: Well,

I got replies from 28 states so far for the other roaches and this is what they said

''We have evaluated your application for the interstate movement of Blaberus

discoidalis, Blaberus fuscus, Blaptica dubia, Eublaberus posticus, and

Nauphoeta cinerea for use as feeder insects. We have determined that this

activity represents an unacceptable risk because the destructive potential of the

plant pest to plants, and parts and products thereof, should it escape despite

proposed safeguards, outweighs the probable benefits to be derived from the

proposed movement and use of the pest. For this reason, we can not authorize

your request. Our authority to deny such requests is in the Code of Federal

Regulations 7 CFR 330.204(a)(2)."

And the Hissers are coming back with no permit required, i guess cuz they cant reproduce as well as these others in our climate--- OH WELL I Tried

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What states have you received replies from?

:angry: Well,

I got replies from 28 states so far for the other roaches and this is what they said

''We have evaluated your application for the interstate movement of Blaberus

discoidalis, Blaberus fuscus, Blaptica dubia, Eublaberus posticus, and

Nauphoeta cinerea for use as feeder insects. We have determined that this

activity represents an unacceptable risk because the destructive potential of the

plant pest to plants, and parts and products thereof, should it escape despite

proposed safeguards, outweighs the probable benefits to be derived from the

proposed movement and use of the pest. For this reason, we can not authorize

your request. Our authority to deny such requests is in the Code of Federal

Regulations 7 CFR 330.204(a)(2)."

And the Hissers are coming back with no permit required, i guess cuz they cant reproduce as well as these others in our climate--- OH WELL I Tried

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