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o, let me start by saying I'm not hybridizing my roaches, not now and not in the future, but I do have something I was thinking about related to hybridizatione.

I am referring to hissers of madagascar such as g,portentosa, g,oblongonota and others in this post spacifically, since that is the genus I have as pets.

Since all of these roaches are all from madagascar, isn't there some natural hybridization?  Or is it like domestic dogs where there are breeds in captivity that don't occur in wild canines.  For example, you aren't going to see a wolf that looks like a golden retriever.  I feel like this example is way off the mark, but I'm not sure how else to explain what I am asking.  Do not g,oblongonotas exist in the wild?  And, if their are, couldn't they interbreed with tiger hissers or any other madagascar hisser of that genus.  I'm just curious how all that works.  I am interested in the genes and evolution of this type of roach in general as well.  Thanks for your patience with my questions, I know this can be a heated topic, but I'm honestly not sure how all these things work and hope to learn from other roach enthusiasts.

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It was always my understanding that they all lived in isolated populations in the wild, and none of their ranges actually overlap, thus no hybridization barrier ever had to evolve. That's just what I think, I have no idea if that's accurate or not. 

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This is so interesting! I wonder what happened with the common ancestor and how the different species "found" their respective zones. Wow, deep stuff!

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Yes, I am very curious.  I also wonder what happened to the common ansester.  Also, Madagascar isn't all that large, I wonder what keeps the types separated from one another.  Geographically I mean.  I'm hoping we can get some more information!

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15 hours ago, Crazy Bug Lady said:

Yes, I am very curious.  I also wonder what happened to the common ansester.  Also, Madagascar isn't all that large, I wonder what keeps the types separated from one another.  Geographically I mean.  I'm hoping we can get some more information!

It is a very big island and they do not fly.

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I teach Biology at the high school level and rather than type out a huge chunk of text, I'll link this video I use each year to explain the process of reproductive isolation and speciation: 

Enjoy!

As far as Madagascar goes, perhaps this will make it slightly easier to look for the signs of natural phenomena that may have happened during your research. 

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On 5/7/2017 at 10:50 AM, Psydeus565 said:

I teach Biology at the high school level and rather than type out a huge chunk of text, I'll link this video I use each year to explain the process of reproductive isolation and speciation: 

Enjoy!

As far as Madagascar goes, perhaps this will make it slightly easier to look for the signs of natural phenomena that may have happened during your research. 

Thank you!  This helped a lot.  As was said earlier, the fact that they can't fly would make it easier for new types to form.  I guess my next question is, are hybrid offspring of say a g,oblongonota and a g,portentosa infertile?  Like the offspring of a horse and donkey.  I feel like I'm still missing a step here, but maybe that's because it's been four years since universiy biology.  There are also subspieces, right?  And they can breed and produce fertile offspring. 

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16 hours ago, Randomjoe said:

all the Gromphadorhina hybrids are just as fertile as purebeed as far as I've heard and will keep makeing hybrids.

 

So, according  to the video, they are on their way to becoming completely separate species, but they still recognize each other and produce fertile offspring.  So in many, many more generations maybe they wouldn't?  If I'm understanding this right anyway.

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If they have more generations and if their hissing patterns were to change significantly then there would be no hybridization events. I remember a study where scientists plugged their hissing holes and no mating occurred for these individuals. With the simplification of gene sequencing in this age, we could look at the number of genetic differences between the two and get an estimate for their past separation. Anyhow, fun stuff.

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Just a note on Madagascar itself. The island has a number of very distinct ecosystems, from desert to rainforest, savanna to wetlands. These diverse ecosystems (and the weather patterns that cause them) create barriers to hybridization. A species that has evolved in a wet forest environment would be very unlikely to travel to a dry savanna. You also have geographic barriers like rivers and the mountain range that runs north to south down the middle of the island that keep populations separated. Add to that the variety of niches — caves, trees, leaf litter, burrows — and you can see how the hissers evolved to be so distinct. So Gromphadorhina species CAN hybridize, but wouldn't likely ever come in contact with each other in the wild due to the simple inability to reach each other and/or thrive in a different clime. (And my dad said a degree in Earth Science wouldn't ever be useful.)

There's a great 3-part BBC/David Attenborough documentary series on Madagascar. IIRC it doesn't have anything specifically on the roaches, but it's a great primer on the island and ecosystems. It's mostly about the lemurs and their diversity, but the same premises hold for the hissers. I just checked and it's on Netflix. Might have to go watch that again. ;)

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