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Hisserdude

Princisia vanwaerbeki "Big"

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Received 5 mixed nymphs from a friend whose colony I'm about 99% sure is pure, so fingers crossed I'm right about that, only time will tell! :D

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Still got a lot of growing to do, looking forward to seeing the adults! :)

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Sorry but a solid black specimen doesn't seem at all right unless these are the so called "black princisia".

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As a general rule of thumb, using the coloration of nymphs that are not yet subadults or larger is an inconsistent way of determining purity... I believe you mentioned something similar in your book "For the Love of Cockroaches", about telling younger Gromphadorhina oblongonata nymphs apart from other Gromphadorhina species, or telling if they're pure. 

11 hours ago, Allpet Roaches said:

Sorry but a solid black specimen doesn't seem at all right unless these are the so called "black princisia".

They're still nymphs in that picture, that same solid black one (though it actually had small white spots on the thorax, hard to see with the flash), has now molted to the subadult stage:

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1 hour ago, Hisserdude said:

As a general rule of thumb, using the coloration of nymphs that are not yet subadults or larger is an inconsistent way of determining purity... I believe you mentioned something similar in your book "For the Love of Cockroaches", about telling younger Gromphadorhina oblongonata nymphs apart from other Gromphadorhina species, or telling if they're pure. 

They're still nymphs in that picture, that same solid black one (though it actually had small white spots on the thorax, hard to see with the flash), has now molted to the subadult stage:

Princisiavanwaerbeki%25239.JPG

Princisiavanwaerbeki%252311.JPG

Princisiavanwaerbeki%252313.JPG

Princisiavanwaerbeki%252315.JPG

The black specimen did not look like a small nymph in that photo. I'm surprised it's the same one here. One thing to consider when you say pure princisia (standard especially) is there were at least 4 different stocks of very different looking "princisia" around 2000 including a smaller solid black and portentosa colored lines. These were all collected from different locales and were all pure at the time. The standard was the one that looked like portentosa except for the pronotum scoop. From your second pictures and comments I'm guessing you're talking about the line called "princisia big"? That is what it was traded as twenty years ago.

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1 hour ago, Allpet Roaches said:

The black specimen did not look like a small nymph in that photo. I'm surprised it's the same one here. One thing to consider when you say pure princisia (standard especially) is there were at least 4 different stocks of very different looking "princisia" around 2000 including a smaller solid black and portentosa colored lines. These were all collected from different locales and were all pure at the time. The standard was the one that looked like portentosa except for the pronotum scoop. From your second pictures and comments I'm guessing you're talking about the line called "princisia big"? That is what it was traded as twenty years ago.

Yeah, weird camera angle I guess, molted twice since then and is now (I think) a subadult. :)

According to my lineage tracing, these are (supposedly) untainted descendants from DoubleD's Princisia, which were apparently NOT labeled as "Big" at the time, (he may or may not have been selling stock labeled "Big" at the same time, but these supposedly did not come from that culture). So I've just been calling them "Standard", though they're probably the same as what pure "Big" used to be, (and according to @Nicolas Rousseaux, the whole "Big" labeling was for marketing and to get more people to buy them, the size and percentage of large adults is the same between stocks labeled "Big" and "Normal/Standard").

Interesting to hear about the "portentosa" looking and black vanwaerbeki strains, seems both have been lost from culture for a while, (at least in their pure forms). 

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21 hours ago, Hisserdude said:

Yeah, weird camera angle I guess, molted twice since then and is now (I think) a subadult. :)

According to my lineage tracing, these are (supposedly) untainted descendants from DoubleD's Princisia, which were apparently NOT labeled as "Big" at the time, (he may or may not have been selling stock labeled "Big" at the same time, but these supposedly did not come from that culture). So I've just been calling them "Standard", though they're probably the same as what pure "Big" used to be, (and according to @Nicolas Rousseaux, the whole "Big" labeling was for marketing and to get more people to buy them, the size and percentage of large adults is the same between stocks labeled "Big" and "Normal/Standard").

Interesting to hear about the "portentosa" looking and black vanwaerbeki strains, seems both have been lost from culture for a while, (at least in their pure forms). 

Big was the name of the stock a decade before DoubleD acquired some of them. It was used on some European sites to differentiate them from the other "princisia" lines and I don't think it was a marketing ploy because they all showed up on EU lists around 2000. I still had the black and portentosa look princisia until about five years ago when I finally fed them to some assassins. They were never a fraction as big as a big big was. I lost the big maybe 2006 since they were finicky.

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3 hours ago, Allpet Roaches said:

Big was the name of the stock a decade before DoubleD acquired some of them. It was used on some European sites to differentiate them from the other "princisia" lines and I don't think it was a marketing ploy because they all showed up on EU lists around 2000. I still had the black and portentosa look princisia until about five years ago when I finally fed them to some assassins. They were never a fraction as big as a big big was. I lost the big maybe 2006 since they were finicky.

OK, that's good to know, I think nowadays in Europe some people must label the "Big" stock as just P.vanwaerbeki with no strain name at all, which probably accounts for Nicolas's experience with the lack of differences between them. 

Color wise, and considering the fact that this particular stock is very finicky compared to other hissers in terms of productivity and young nymph survival rates, what I have should be pure "Big" stock then, (though for some reason they've not been marketed as being from the "Big" strain). Your old "Big" stock was almost certainly pure too if they were finicky as well, that seems to be one of the dead giveaways that Princisia are pure, (even the recently imported "Androhamana" Princisia are similarly difficult), too bad yours fizzled out, most people in the US had the same happen to their pure cultures. 

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