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Can Bioluminescent fungi affect roach species other then Lucihormetica?


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So there has been a rumor circulating among roach enthusiasts that feeding bioluminescent mushrooms or fungi to Lucihormetica roach species (glow spot roach species) can recreate the bioluminescent features that the species have in the wild. Considering the morphology of lucihormetica the glow spots on their prothorax is a section of thin transparent exoskeleton membrane instead of a specialized organ like that of fire flies. This means that the muscles of Lucihormetica species glow and is apparent in areas where the exoskeleton is thin or transparent. This is evident in the very few photos of wild individuals. Now reading the research of Orin McMonigle and others who specialize in roach husbandry. In general the coloration of adult roaches can be altered slightly through the food they ingest during their development as nymphs as well as genetic color variations and diversity (this is best shown in the wide array and coloration of Dubia roaches and mix bred hisser roaches). With this in mind could it be possible to create adult roaches with traces of bioluminescence by feeding them glowing mushrooms or fungi through the duration of their nymph phases??? I would like a second opinion on this possible experiment.

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I don't know anything about the workings of glow spot roach's glowing ability, but I can suggest sources for bioluminescent mushrooms.

I got a inculcated log from here which grew amazingly well: http://www.blackjung...LOG_p_2523.html

Or you can get spores (and inculcate your own log) here: http://www.blackjung...Kit_p_1965.html

And this company (I have not tested) has different species available: http://vistamushroom...hroom-kits.html

And you could even test out bioluminescent algae: http://empco.org/

It would be amazing if we could activate the Glow Spot Roach's glow!

*EDIT*

Here are photos of the mushroom long I had. The camera wasn't good enough to pick up the glow, so I only have photos of them in the light.

It had 2 flushes, the one at the top is old, the one at the bottom is just starting.

http://arachnoboards...-log.29015/full

Here, the 2nd flush (at the bottom) has grown bigger. Also notice the random (non bioluminescent) mushroom growing on the cork bark behind the log.

http://arachnoboards...-log.29048/full

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From what I understand, it's a bacteria that causes the spots to glow. The glowing organs don't work like that of a firefly. The roach is unable to make itself glow, it has to have the correct bacteria. I believe it's a myth that glowing mushrooms as a food will recreate bioluminescence.

Here's a good paper on the morphology of the pronotum spots:

http://www.academia.edu/7243261/Courtship_Mating_and_Organisation_of_the_Pronotum_in_Lucihormetica_verrucosa

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Thanks Tenevanica It would make sense but considering the environment and ecosystem the Lucihormetica species live in the wild their preference for high moisture and humidity as well as living close to rivers and streams provides a perfect environment for both glowing bacteria and fungi to thrive and in their natural habitat bioluminescent species of mushrooms do exist so its not completely unplausible although it hasn't been disproven yet either. Given that factor I would at least like to try and see this through to the end to observe if it is true or false. Either way I there would be no lose in trying. If it does work then it will be an amazing light show to observe by night and if not. Lucihormetica roaches have interesting semi-social behaviors and are themselves gorgeous roaches. Not to mention I would have an awesome terrarium full of glowing mushrooms. :)

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I don't know anything about the workings of glow spot roach's glowing ability, but I can suggest sources for bioluminescent mushrooms.

I got a inculcated log from here which grew amazingly well: http://www.blackjung...LOG_p_2523.html

Or you can get spores (and inculcate your own log) here: http://www.blackjung...Kit_p_1965.html

And this company (I have not tested) has different species available: http://vistamushroom...hroom-kits.html

And you could even test out bioluminescent algae: http://empco.org/

It would be amazing if we could activate the Glow Spot Roach's glow!

*EDIT*

Here are photos of the mushroom long I had. The camera wasn't good enough to pick up the glow, so I only have photos of them in the light.

It had 2 flushes, the one at the top is old, the one at the bottom is just starting.

http://arachnoboards...-log.29015/full

Here, the 2nd flush (at the bottom) has grown bigger. Also notice the random (non bioluminescent) mushroom growing on the cork bark behind the log.

http://arachnoboards...-log.29048/full

Thanks for the links Acro it will make it much easier to get the materials ready for this little project :D

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From what I understand, it's a bacteria that causes the spots to glow. The glowing organs don't work like that of a firefly. The roach is unable to make itself glow, it has to have the correct bacteria. I believe it's a myth that glowing mushrooms as a food will recreate bioluminescence.

Here's a good paper on the morphology of the pronotum spots:

http://www.academia....etica_verrucosa

I've read the paper on morphology research, it is truly fascinating material, However the statement regarding the use of bacteria wasn't officially confirm in fact the research states that even wild caught male Lucihormetica verrucosa didn't exhibit any indications of bioluminescence. However when the species was originally discovered it was noted that these abilities although not produced by the roaches themselves were present. I did mention their lack to produce their own light in my first statement. The research paper does support the fact that based on the tissue analyzed from the transparent knobs of the males that they have many of the proper tissue structures to produce light the species simply can't produce its own.

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I've read the paper on morphology research, it is truly fascinating material, However the statement regarding the use of bacteria wasn't officially confirm in fact the research states that even wild caught male Lucihormetica verrucosa didn't exhibit any indications of bioluminescence. However when the species was originally discovered it was noted that these abilities although not produced by the roaches themselves were present. I did mention their lack to produce their own light in my first statement. The research paper does support the fact that based on the tissue analyzed from the transparent knobs of the males that they have many of the proper tissue structures to produce light the species simply can't produce its own.

The glowing bacteria hypothesis wasn't addressed in that paper. However, bacteria would make the most sense to me, as bioluminescent bacteria are a very common means of bioluminscense in higher animals. The luciferine pigment, the pigment that glows in the mushrooms, would be denatured during the digestive processes of the roach, so unless it has some special mechanism of preserving the pigment, the glow would likely not continue. It seems improbable to myself and other hobbyists that it's glowing mushrooms doing the work. There was an Arachnoboards thread (that I can't find now, of course!) where someone tried adding a species of bioluminscent mushroom to their L. subcincta cage, and they observed no glowing of the pronotums.

I also read somewhere that only subcincta and lukea (L. lukea is now extinct) have pronotum spots that are observed to glow. I don't think verrucosa spots have ever been seen to glow.

Go for it though, I'd be interested in your findings. A glow vivarium sounds interesting, especially if the roaches get in on the fun!

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The glowing bacteria hypothesis wasn't addressed in that paper. However, bacteria would make the most sense to me, as bioluminescent bacteria are a very common means of bioluminscense in higher animals. The luciferine pigment, the pigment that glows in the mushrooms, would be denatured during the digestive processes of the roach, so unless it has some special mechanism of preserving the pigment, the glow would likely not continue. It seems improbable to myself and other hobbyists that it's glowing mushrooms doing the work. There was an Arachnoboards thread (that I can't find now, of course!) where someone tried adding a species of bioluminscent mushroom to their L. subcincta cage, and they observed no glowing of the pronotums.

I also read somewhere that only subcincta and lukea (L. lukea is now extinct) have pronotum spots that are observed to glow. I don't think verrucosa spots have ever been seen to glow.

Go for it though, I'd be interested in your findings. A glow vivarium sounds interesting, especially if the roaches get in on the fun!

Thank you for the much needed information I'll use subcincta for the project instead of verrucosa .

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There's not a single observation that prove Lucihormetica actually glow.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/33860605/Greven_Zwanzig_Courtship_Mating_and_Organisation_of_the_Pronotum_in_the_Glowspot_Cockroach_Lucihormetica_verrucosa_Entomo_2.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ56TQJRTWSMTNPEA&Expires=1466796404&Signature=CPCL4X7xoWujWRGUosBi3DliU5k%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DCourtship_Mating_and_Organisation_of_the.pdf

Above is a thorough study of the mating behavior and morphology of L. verrucosa. Based on dissections of live specimens, no evidence shows the spots are bioluminescent organs. The spots are basically a cushion of fat body cells underlying a thin layer of transparent cuticle.

I understand how appealing a "glowing roach" sounds to a blattodea lover like you and me, but from the materials I've read so far, there's just no strong evidence showing that Lucihormetica ever glows at all. All the papers announced the existence of bioluminescence in those roaches were based on dead specimens; but that was never observed in any alive wild or captive bred individuals; and they live, feed, and mate readily without any need of bioluminescence.

It's pretty sure they don't use their glow spots in hunting and mating like fireflies. And if their glow spots are used for defense as most people believe, why those spots only exist on males? We know how "cheap" males are for insects.

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There's not a single observation that prove Lucihormetica actually glow.

http://s3.amazonaws....tion_of_the.pdf

Above is a thorough study of the mating behavior and morphology of L. verrucosa. Based on dissections of live specimens, no evidence shows the spots are bioluminescent organs. The spots are basically a cushion of fat body cells underlying a thin layer of transparent cuticle.

I understand how appealing a "glowing roach" sounds to a blattodea lover like you and me, but from the materials I've read so far, there's just no strong evidence showing that Lucihormetica ever glows at all. All the papers announced the existence of bioluminescence in those roaches were based on dead specimens; but that was never observed in any alive wild or captive bred individuals; and they live, feed, and mate readily without any need of bioluminescence.

It's pretty sure they don't use their glow spots in hunting and mating like fireflies. And if their glow spots are used for defense as most people believe, why those spots only exist on males? We know how "cheap" males are for insects.

I linked to that paper above ;)

Lucihormetica lukea is a species that has somewhat recently gone extinct, but part of its description states that the spots on the pronotum of males do glow. If I can find it I'll link to it, but this is the only scientific description of a Lucihormetica species glowing.

L. subcincta has been reported to glow by some hobbyists, but who knows how valid those statements were. L. verrucosa, the species the paper focuses on, has never been observed to glow.

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As taken from this wikipedia page:

Like other species in the genus Lucihormetica, L. luckae's back carapace features one small and two large spots that glow when exposed to light (autofluorescence), perhaps to mimic the appearance of the toxic click beetle (Pyrophorus) that emits light at the same wavelength, in which case this would be an instance of Batesian mimicry.[1][2] The evidence for genuine bioluminescence in Lucihormetica cockroaches is anecdotal and inconclusive,[3][4] though there is evidence for autofluorescence.[5]

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I linked to that paper above ;)

Lucihormetica lukea is a species that has somewhat recently gone extinct, but part of its description states that the spots on the pronotum of males do glow. If I can find it I'll link to it, but this is the only scientific description of a Lucihormetica species glowing.

L. subcincta has been reported to glow by some hobbyists, but who knows how valid those statements were. L. verrucosa, the species the paper focuses on, has never been observed to glow.

I agree even Orin McMonigle has mentions about wild L. subcincta males glowing in his research.

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