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Oniscus asellus "Mardi Gras Dalmatian"


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11 minutes ago, KatsKreations said:

which springtails are those?

Sinella curviseta, they are fairly large, really prolific springtails that do well to keep mites away, though they have proven to be less than beneficial to some roach species if their numbers get too large...

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So some of you may know that my population of Cylisticus convexus "Pied" died out unfortunately, due to under-watering. However, a new morph has shown up in one of my other species's enclosure, and it

Maybe its like the blue merle color for dogs where you have to breed it with a normal color that has the gene for it to get babies with it?

Here are some pictures I took of mine recently:

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11 minutes ago, Hisserdude said:

Sinella curviseta, they are fairly large, really prolific springtails that do well to keep mites away, though they have proven to be less than beneficial to some roach species if their numbers get too large...

those are on my list

 

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Well be careful when housing them in container with small roaches, like tiny Ectobiids, they can outcompete some of those species if their population gets big enough! For the most part they do OK with larger roaches though.

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27 minutes ago, KatsKreations said:

I know I want some sort with both of my types of hissers for sure

Well keep in mind, springtails (and isopods) only do well in moist enclosures, if you keep your hissers pretty dry (like many keepers do), then springtails will not survive long in their enclosure.

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1 hour ago, Hisserdude said:

Well keep in mind, springtails (and isopods) only do well in moist enclosures, if you keep your hissers pretty dry (like many keepers do), then springtails will not survive long in their enclosure.

I'm just curious, do hissers still do well and reproduce steadily when kept moist as opposed to dry? I'm wondering because they seem to accept many conditions and that would keep the worry of cannibalism out of my head. lol

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42 minutes ago, All About Insects said:

I'm just curious, do hissers still do well and reproduce steadily when kept moist as opposed to dry? I'm wondering because they seem to accept many conditions and that would keep the worry of cannibalism out of my head. lol

Apparently they do well when kept moist (as long as they have good ventilation), as well as when kept dry, I think more people keep them dry since it's easier than maintaining high humidity and can help to keep mites at bay.

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  • 3 weeks later...

If the mutation causing your new color is recessive, it would require both parents to carry both copies of said gene to pass it to 100% of their offspring.  If it's dominant, the offspring only need to receive one copy of the gene to express the color and continue passing it on.

There are also color genes that are homozygous lethal, meaning that if the offspring inherit both copies, they're dead before they're born.  I wonder if something like that happened with your previous color morph when you segregated them from the rest of the colony.  Then again, that situation (at least in rodents) would generally result in smaller litters since a percentage of them are reabsorbed as embryos, but the offspring that inherited only one copy of the fatal gene would still express the color and thrive.

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7 hours ago, CritterChick said:

If the mutation causing your new color is recessive, it would require both parents to carry both copies of said gene to pass it to 100% of their offspring.  If it's dominant, the offspring only need to receive one copy of the gene to express the color and continue passing it on.

There are also color genes that are homozygous lethal, meaning that if the offspring inherit both copies, they're dead before they're born.  I wonder if something like that happened with your previous color morph when you segregated them from the rest of the colony.  Then again, that situation (at least in rodents) would generally result in smaller litters since a percentage of them are reabsorbed as embryos, but the offspring that inherited only one copy of the fatal gene would still express the color and thrive.

Well these O.asellus "Dalmatians" have been consistently giving birth to similarly colored offspring, which is great! :)

Don't know what happened with the "Piebald" Cylisticus convexus I once had, they never gave birth to anything other than normal offspring, however they did give birth to a lot of offspring, so I don't think they had that "Fatal" gene, maybe they did though, who knows. I gave some to another keeper before my culture died, and he still hasn't been able to get them to produce any pied offspring, just a ton of normal ones. He tried crossbreeding them with normal mates as well, to see if they needed both genes for some reason, still nothing but normal offspring. :(

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My guess is that your piebald morph wasn't a heritable trait at all, but either a random mutation or something that happened during a pivotal time during their early development.  Maybe a temperature or humidity fluctuation, or a certain material/microbe that was briefly present or ingested.  Then it becomes a frustrating guessing game to try and reproduce that condition.

The notion of heritable color traits in my pet inverts is super interesting to me.  I hadn't ever really thought of breeding for color or pattern in them, I just figured oddball colors were either a fluke or a family line tendency as opposed to a specific inheritance.

The mosaic pattern in sugar gliders, for example, isn't technically heritable.  It falls within certain bloodlines, but there's no guarantee of the offspring being born mosaic, or what version of it they get (mosaic is simple random places where the pigment doesn't take.  Sometimes they have ringtail markings, sometimes they have white patches on their bodies/faces).  There's no "mosaic carriers" or "het for mosaic".  It's just knowing that mosaic parents are likely to throw mosaic joeys, where a family line of gliders that hasn't ever had a mosaic isn't going to just crop up with one. 

Getting even nerdier, it can have to do with where (which allele)on what gene the mutation has occurred.  In both my syrian hamsters and sugar gliders, for example, there are colors that are mutations of the same gene.  That means no matter what other wacky combination of colors I want to create, I can never make a platinum leucistic sugar glider or an extreme dilute, dark eared white syrian hamster because these two color traits are on the same gene; you can't mutate the gene in two different directions at once.

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On 2/28/2017 at 9:46 PM, Hisserdude said:

These guys are doing well, the original few offspring have almost reached sexual maturity already, and the adults have been producing more offspring, which are still all dalmatians too! BTW, what do you guys think of the name "Mardi Gras Dalmatians", since they got the yellow flecks too? Was a suggestion by someone on Facebook.
 

I think Mardi Gras would be a cool color name, or even just "party" the way they refer to some dog breeds with color patches as "party colored".

Also, if you get your colony big enough and reproducing predictably, put me on your waiting list for sales ;)

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26 minutes ago, CritterChick said:

My guess is that your piebald morph wasn't a heritable trait at all, but either a random mutation or something that happened during a pivotal time during their early development.  Maybe a temperature or humidity fluctuation, or a certain material/microbe that was briefly present or ingested.  Then it becomes a frustrating guessing game to try and reproduce that condition.

The notion of heritable color traits in my pet inverts is super interesting to me.  I hadn't ever really thought of breeding for color or pattern in them, I just figured oddball colors were either a fluke or a family line tendency as opposed to a specific inheritance.

The mosaic pattern in sugar gliders, for example, isn't technically heritable.  It falls within certain bloodlines, but there's no guarantee of the offspring being born mosaic, or what version of it they get (mosaic is simple random places where the pigment doesn't take.  Sometimes they have ringtail markings, sometimes they have white patches on their bodies/faces).  There's no "mosaic carriers" or "het for mosaic".  It's just knowing that mosaic parents are likely to throw mosaic joeys, where a family line of gliders that hasn't ever had a mosaic isn't going to just crop up with one. 

Getting even nerdier, it can have to do with where (which allele)on what gene the mutation has occurred.  In both my syrian hamsters and sugar gliders, for example, there are colors that are mutations of the same gene.  That means no matter what other wacky combination of colors I want to create, I can never make a platinum leucistic sugar glider or an extreme dilute, dark eared white syrian hamster because these two color traits are on the same gene; you can't mutate the gene in two different directions at once.

You know, now that I think of it, the Pied Cylisticus only started popping up after this annoying fungus showed up in their enclosure that turned their substrate into one solid mat, didn't seem to bother them much so I didn't bother removing it. Also, at about the same time I isolated the Pied Cylisticus, I found a random Armadillidium vulgare in their enclosure, and it was also Pied. Unfortunately I did not bother isolating it or taking pics of it, even though it was quite an unusual specimen. So maybe it was that fungus that altered their coloration for some reason, sadly it rotted away and died in their enclosure, so if it was the cause of the Pied coloration, I sadly can't recreate those conditions. :(

27 minutes ago, CritterChick said:

I think Mardi Gras would be a cool color name, or even just "party" the way they refer to some dog breeds with color patches as "party colored".

Also, if you get your colony big enough and reproducing predictably, put me on your waiting list for sales ;)

Cool, I think I'm gonna go with the "Mardi Gras", though "Party" is nice too...

Sure thing, will add you to the list! :) Hopefully I'll have some available later this year!

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5 minutes ago, Hisserdude said:

You know, now that I think of it, the Pied Cylisticus only started popping up after this annoying fungus showed up in their enclosure that turned their substrate into one solid mat, didn't seem to bother them much so I didn't bother removing it. Also, at about the same time I isolated the Pied Cylisticus, I found a random Armadillidium vulgare in their enclosure, and it was also Pied. Unfortunately I did not bother isolating it or taking pics of it, even though it was quite an unusual specimen. So maybe it was that fungus that altered their coloration for some reason, sadly it rotted away and died in their enclosure, so if it was the cause of the Pied coloration, I sadly can't recreate those conditions. :(

Cool, I think I'm gonna go with the "Mardi Gras", though "Party" is nice too...

Sure thing, will add you to the list! :) Hopefully I'll have some available later this year!

So maybe your pied were a bit like the glowspot roaches, where they needed a special diet to crop up with their color.  Really, I think your mardi gras 'pods are super cool looking, and I'm glad they're breeding true for you!

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1 minute ago, CritterChick said:

So maybe your pied were a bit like the glowspot roaches, where they needed a special diet to crop up with their color.  Really, I think your mardi gras 'pods are super cool looking, and I'm glad they're breeding true for you!

Yeah, maybe, I should try to get that fungus to infest my enclosures again, would be interesting to see which species it works on, if it is truly the cause of the Pied coloration. Then again, I also had some weird, Pied Porcellio scaber that also only produced normal offspring, and they weren't in contact with that mold at all, so maybe I just have had bad luck in getting morphs that produce anything other than normal offspring. :P

Thanks, I'm glad they are breeding true too, now if only they could breed a little faster lol! :D 

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1 hour ago, dragonfire1577 said:

Sorry to revive a thread but I found one of these in my garden today and it's carrying babies, I'm certain its the same species and if it drops offspring successfully I'd like to see if ours carry the same trait. Mine was found In Connecticut.

Interesting, sure it's not a Dalmatian P.scaber? Those are a lot more common. Would be very cool if it was indeed another Dalmatian Oniscus asellus strain, keep me posted!

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5 hours ago, dragonfire1577 said:

Besides pics don't lie 

isopod12.jpg

Ooh yeah, that's O.asellus alright, nice find! :D Hope you can get the morph isolated!

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5 hours ago, dragonfire1577 said:

I am very curious if one of yours was bred to one of mine once isolated, would It produce more dalmatian patterned animals? Do you have any idea where your colony originated from geographically?

Mine are producing about %98 Dalmatian offspring, I still find one or two normal looking juveniles occasionally, but I think with time they will breed %100 true. Not sure what genetics your strain carries, so it's possible that crosses between out two strains may produce more or less Dalmatian patterned individuals than if we kept them isolated, and who knows, maybe other morphs could pop up too?

My Oniscus asellus come from two different populations, one in Meridian ID, and the other in Boise ID, I caught them all myself. I started with normal looking individuals, and these popped up years later.

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I have noticed your specimens appear to have more of grey spots while mine has quite dark spotting regardless of lighting, I also see patterns in many of yours where the spots are either smaller or there is connecting patterns spanning from one side of the body to the other at least to some extent while my specimen shows larger blotches without these connecting patterns. The gene may or may not be the same (I feel it likely is) but the populations being different likely has some impact, I will be treating this as at least a separate strain of the same gene until proving otherwise is possible. I feel we would need to see them side to side and compare then along with test breeding the two.

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