Simandoa conserfariam status

[Gromphadorhini]

Why is it generally said everywhere that this species is extinct in the wild? I have not seen a single official document confirming this information. It is not in the IUCN directory either.

[Beetlesforlife3]

The cave/only habitat they were found in was destroyed.

[Gromphadorhini]

30 минут назад Beetlesforlife3 сказал:

Пещера / единственная среда обитания, в которой они были найдены, была разрушена.

Что ж, в конце концов, есть вероятность, что они живут в других пещерах того же региона. И МСОП не опубликовал его на своем веб-сайте. Как-то странно. Обычно они всегда публикуются после исследования.

And are there any reports in the literature that this particular cave was destroyed?

[Allpet Roaches]

1 hour ago, Gromphadorhini said:

Что ж, в конце концов, есть вероятность, что они живут в других пещерах того же региона. И МСОП не опубликовал его на своем веб-сайте. Как-то странно. Обычно они всегда публикуются после исследования.

And are there any reports in the literature that this particular cave was destroyed?

https://bioone.org/journals/journal-of-orthoptera-research/volume-13/issue-1/1082-6467(2004)013[0057:ANGASO]2.0.CO;2/A-new-genus-and-species-of-cave-cockroach-Blaberidae/10.1665/1082-6467(2004)013[0057:ANGASO]2.0.CO;2.full

[Gromphadorhini]

51 minutes ago, Allpet Roaches said:

https://bioone.org/journals/journal-of-orthoptera-research/volume-13/issue-1/1082-6467(2004)013[0057:ANGASOpting2.0.CO;2/A-new-genus- and-разновидности-пещерного таракана-Blaberidae / 10.1665 / 1082-6467 (2004) 013 [0057: ANGASO] 2.0.CO; 2.full

Yes, of course I read this work, but at that moment the cave was in place. After this publication, I have not come across any work on this taxon and others that speak of the destruction of this site. It is known that mining operations are being carried out in that region, but direct indications that the cave no longer exist has not been found.

[FlamingSwampert]

4 hours ago, Gromphadorhini said:

Yes, of course I read this work, but at that moment the cave was in place. After this publication, I have not come across any work on this taxon and others that speak of the destruction of this site. It is known that mining operations are being carried out in that region, but direct indications that the cave no longer exist has not been found.

I believe Peter got his culture from one of the discoverers of the species, and he confirmed that the cave was destroyed/thoroughly ruined. 

[goliathusdavid]

This seems to continually come up on multiple forums, so let's hope this explanation is clarifying.

The reason why many people claim that Simandoas are not extinct in the wild is because their status as such has not yet been recognized by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature. The only reason for this is that the IUCN requires a minimum 50 year period between a species last sighting in the wild, and its declaration as extinct in the wild. This DOES NOT however, mean that this species does not deserve this status. Heck, the IUCN still hasn't officially recognized Northern White Rhinos as extinct in the wild and there are only two left on the planet. 

Piotr Naskrecki, one of the discoverers of the species, confirmed that the cave system of their discovery was destroyed by bauxite mining. The cave system was destroyed along with 650 addition km of the Simandou mountain range, which continues to be mined to this day (by western companies may I note). With only two protected areas in the mountain range, totaling less than 350km^2 and Simandoas seen in neither of these, the species is functionally extinct in the wild. This is why Naskrecki, Conservation International, National Geographic, numerous other media outlets, and the four institutions that possess them in the US (along with the hobby) refer to this species as extinct in the wild.

Could there still be small isolated pockets we don't know about? Sure. Those pockets could exist for pretty much any species. But functionally, this species is extinct in the wild which is why is it critical that it continue to be responsibly cultured in the hobby, and equally importantly, in zoological institutions.

Hope this is helpful...

[FlamingSwampert]

17 hours ago, goliathusdavid said:

This seems to continually come up on multiple forums, so let's hope this explanation is clarifying.

The reason why many people claim that Simandoas are not extinct in the wild is because their status as such has not yet been recognized by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature. The only reason for this is that the IUCN requires a minimum 50 year period between a species last sighting in the wild, and its declaration as extinct in the wild. This DOES NOT however, mean that this species does not deserve this status. Heck, the IUCN still hasn't officially recognized Northern White Rhinos as extinct in the wild and there are only two left on the planet. 

Piotr Naskrecki, one of the discoverers of the species, confirmed that the cave system of their discovery was destroyed by bauxite mining. The cave system was destroyed along with 650 addition km of the Simandou mountain range, which continues to be mined to this day (by western companies may I note). With only two protected areas in the mountain range, totaling less than 350km^2 and Simandoas seen in neither of these, the species is functionally extinct in the wild. This is why Naskrecki, Conservation International, National Geographic, numerous other media outlets, and the four institutions that possess them in the US (along with the hobby) refer to this species as extinct in the wild.

Could there still be small isolated pockets we don't know about? Sure. Those pockets could exist for pretty much any species. But functionally, this species is extinct in the wild which is why is it critical that it continue to be responsibly cultured in the hobby, and equally importantly, in zoological institutions.

Hope this is helpful...

F in the chat

[goliathusdavid]

6 hours ago, FlamingSwampert said:

F in the chat

Apologies if this in any way seemed disrespectful, that was not my intent at all. Was this improper as a newbie to the forum? I assure you I had no intent to offend, I just see it keep coming up and wanted to help clarify. 

[Allpet Roaches]

9 hours ago, goliathusdavid said:

Apologies if this in any way seemed disrespectful, that was not my intent at all. Was this improper as a newbie to the forum? I assure you I had no intent to offend, I just see it keep coming up and wanted to help clarify. 

I don't think Flamingswampert was offended but then I also don't know what his/her short, non-descript message meant. I think it meant ignore the chatter but it could mean feathers are lighter than stones. I don't remember anyone questioning the validity of the extinct designation before but of course we still can't prove big dinosaurs are extinct with 100% certainty. I recall a movie suggesting a lost world full of them is in the hollow earth beneath an artificial sun. There maybe some Simandoa there too.

[Gromphadorhini]

On 02.04.2021 at 10:34, goliathusdavid said:

Кажется, это постоянно обсуждается на нескольких форумах, поэтому будем надеяться, что это объяснение проясняет ситуацию.

Причина, по которой многие люди утверждают, что симандоа не вымерли в дикой природе, заключается в том, что их статус как таковой еще не признан Международным союзом охраны природы. Только причина этого заключается в том, что МСОП требует летнего периода минимума 50 между видовым последним прицеливанием в дикой природе, и его заявление, исчезнувший в дикой природе. Однако это НЕ означает, что этот вид не заслуживает этого статуса. Черт возьми, МСОП до сих пор официально не признал северных белых носорогов вымершими в дикой природе, а на планете осталось только два. 

Петр Наскрецкий, один из первооткрывателей этого вида, подтвердил, что пещерная система их открытия была разрушена добычей бокситов. Пещерная система была разрушена вместе с 650 дополнительными километрами горного хребта Симанду, которые продолжают минировать по сей день (могу отметить, что западные компании). Имея только две охраняемые территории в горном хребте, общая площадь которых составляет менее 350 км2, и ни на одном из них не встречается симандоа, этот вид функционально вымер в дикой природе. Вот почему Naskrecki, Conservation International, National Geographic, множество других средств массовой информации и четыре учреждения, владеющие ими в США (наряду с хобби), называют этот вид вымершим в дикой природе.

Могут ли еще быть небольшие изолированные карманы, о которых мы не знаем? Конечно. Эти карманы могут существовать практически для любого вида. Но функционально этот вид вымер в дикой природе, поэтому крайне важно, чтобы его продолжали  ответственно  культивировать в хобби и, что не менее важно, в зоологических учреждениях.

Надеюсь, это поможет ...

Your explanation - really clarified the situation, this is the most adequate information about the state of this species that I have ever seen. Thank you very much!

[goliathusdavid]

7 hours ago, Gromphadorhini said:

Your explanation - really clarified the situation, this is the most adequate information about the state of this species that I have ever seen. Thank you very much!

My pleasure! It's probably my favorite roach species (though I also love Blaberus giganteus) so always happy to talk about it🙂

[FlamingSwampert]

23 hours ago, Allpet Roaches said:

I don't think Flamingswampert was offended but then I also don't know what his/her short, non-descript message meant. I think it meant ignore the chatter but it could mean feathers are lighter than stones. I don't remember anyone questioning the validity of the extinct designation before but of course we still can't prove big dinosaurs are extinct with 100% certainty. I recall a movie suggesting a lost world full of them is in the hollow earth beneath an artificial sun. There maybe some Simandoa there too.

It's an internet phrase used to pay respects to someone/something that has died/is dying. Lol sorry for the confusion.

S. conserfariam is probably my third favorite species, after B. gitanteus and A. insignis.