lecole4 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Hello! I'd like to say first that I am brand new to the forum, though I have been a long-time lurker because the information here is great. Anyway, the backstory to this is that I have owned a healthy feeder colony of B. dubia for three years now. I sourced them from a few places and at this point I've totally forgotten which. :/ Yesterday, when I was taking out a large number of nymphs to ship off to a friend, I noticed a roach that was nearly solid orange, and after a few minutes of looking, I found a couple more. The larger (female?) I found first https://www.dropbox.com/s/ff8sy5vartnrf4i/photo%20mar%2007%2C%2010%2003%2044%20am.jpg?dl=0 Two smaller (males?) I found shortly after with one of my "regular" nymphs for comparison https://www.dropbox.com/s/f26w4z7epetid7z/photo%20mar%2007%2C%2010%2002%2059%20am.jpg?dl=0 What do you all think of this? Is it a polymorphism,something environmental? Has this been seen before? Thanks so much for your insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonsaladsandwich Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Probably just polymorphism. Most of my nymphs look like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Mine seem to vary like this in general. None i've seen are as light as your first though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecole4 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Thank you two for your input so far! (Amazing hippo skull btw, salmonsaladsandwich) I realized that maybe the photos I took weren't really showing off what I was seeing, so I took two more in natural light for good measure. I think it's more obvious how orange the first nymph is and how light the little ones are! I know that there is a lot of natural variation in B. dubia coloration, but it just surprised me that after three years of dark brown and grey roaches, I have four appear that are so different. If this is a polymorphism, is it something that could be bred? I have read that other B. dubia morph projects have not gone well. Thanks for your help! Large orange nymph https://www.dropbox.com/s/of28k75y9yvmp4m/photo%20mar%2008%2C%205%2057%2038%20pm.jpg?dl=0 Small yellow nymph https://www.dropbox.com/s/ny4jqu3y0selgc1/photo%20mar%2008%2C%206%2000%2011%20pm.jpg?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonsaladsandwich Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I've got a crazy little theory- dubias are pretty drought tolerant roaches, right? Perhaps they live in areas where trees are deciduous and drop their leaves during the dry season. Most leaves turn orangey when they drop off, but are dark brown when moist and decaying. Maybe roaches that are kept dry think it's the dry season and become pale and yellowish to match freshly shed leaves, but are dark when kept moist to match the dark, damp decaying leaves. Not that I have any evidence, but it seems possible and many grasshoppers, mantises and other insects have different color forms to match the season. (Including black forms that occur after forest fires!) Is ther any chance that you keep your colony moist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecole4 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 That is an interesting hypothesis! I have read in the past that humidity can "mess" with their coloration, but I don't know how much specific research has been done to investigate the topic. We will have to find out from someone who knows more about B. dubia's natural history, but my understanding is they are drought resistant but they are from tropical forests, so no seasonally deciduous trees in those. I do keep my colony moderately humid with a free-choice container of hydrated polydacrylimide, but I don't mist or use any kind of standing water. Colony care has been the same for three years. Do the new photos still look like nymphs you've produced? Maybe I'm just kidding myself, but I think they're surprisingly light in color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonsaladsandwich Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Yeah, I have at least a few nymphs that look like that. My colony is only three months old and I have more adults and 1st- 3rd Instars than large nymphs, but those I do have are pretty light. By "deciduous forest" I mean tropical deciduous forest, where trees shed their leaves during the dry season- although I still don't know if they live in such environments. Although seeing as it is they can survive weeks with no moisture in a dry, air conditioned house I wouldn't be surprised if they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecole4 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Ahh, yes, I see about the tropical deciduous forest. I wish I knew the answer! Most of the resources I've found just give a list of countries and call them "tropical" and don't give anything beyond that. You've come up with a very nice hypothesis, though I wonder how it would produce multiple colors of roach in the same bin? I have read that there is a "yellow" line of B. dubia being bred in Germany, so it seems to be a breedable trait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanBuck Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 A lot of things can mess with their coloration. Food humidity temps and stuff like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecole4 Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 Thanks, RomanBuck! I have read that before, but I've also seen where others on the forum have selectively bred lines of dubia with different colors. Cleaned out my colony last night and found some more weirdos! Very yellow female https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9pewtn0fj7r52h/photo%20mar%2015%2C%203%2016%2055%20pm.jpg?dl=0 Black and white male, no yellow https://www.dropbox.com/s/qcx4m0fsu3tx1n9/photo%20mar%2015%2C%203%2028%2024%20pm.jpg?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanBuck Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 That male molted recently and needs to harden yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecole4 Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 RomanBuck, that's what I thought too when I first saw him, but I've held him several times and his exoskeleton is just as just as rigid as the rest of the adults. I'm keeping him separate though to see if his yellow turns up over the next few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I've selectively bred them, and the environment and diet had no effect on color. If I bred two light colored adults I got a few light colored offspring and some normal dark ones they all were in the same cage with same diet and I misted the cage with water every day or other day for good humidity so they weren't dry either. Genetics do play and role and selective breeding only the colorful ones you quickly in about 2 generations get great results. http://www.roachforum.com/index.php?showtopic=4329&st=0 Here is my old topic with photos, no fuss in breeding and the results were good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecole4 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thank you so much, Kieth! I'm going to give breeding my own yellow dubia a serious shot. Have you had any experience with the ones without any yellow on them, like my adult male in the above post? I'm trying to decide whether to pair him with a yellow female or if they're two separate mutations and that would be a waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thank you so much, Kieth! I'm going to give breeding my own yellow dubia a serious shot. Have you had any experience with the ones without any yellow on them, like my adult male in the above post? I'm trying to decide whether to pair him with a yellow female or if they're two separate mutations and that would be a waste. So long as one parent has the mutation, in your case the female, you should get some light offspring. From there if you get light male and female offspring breed them together and many offspring will be light, or you could try buying dubia online but asking for any that are light colored if you want to keep genetic diversity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKatie329 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I have a question Keith. You said that food plays no part in color but I was told differently. Do you have a source you can point me to so I can educate myself better on the subject? If this comes across critical of you in text I'm sorry, I don't doubt you, I'm just wondering if there are any papers on the subject or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I have a question Keith. You said that food plays no part in color but I was told differently. Do you have a source you can point me to so I can educate myself better on the subject? If this comes across critical of you in text I'm sorry, I don't doubt you, I'm just wondering if there are any papers on the subject or something. I heard hissers are affected by diet, but them too I raised and the offspring still varied in color on the same diet. I don't know of any resource or papers on it just word of mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKatie329 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'd be very interested to see this tested in a study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecole4 Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 KitKatie329 I can tell you I've had a similar experience with two years of owning a colony with no diet changes to suddenly having these light yellow roaches. Seems genetic to me, but obviously this experience isn't as good as a study! A little update, the light roaches all have their own bin! I'm pretty excited to see where I can take them, and if they'll keep producing more animals like themselves. Light female https://www.dropbox.com/s/q75eb817s2eyvxv/photo%20mar%2025%2C%205%2011%2006%20pm.jpg?dl=0 Light male https://www.dropbox.com/s/35ths9hfnrv1vs0/photo%20mar%2025%2C%205%2015%2026%20pm.jpg?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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