What CuC do you keep with your roaches/inverts?

[Jimbobtom]

Was just wondering which CuC is recommended(if any). I made the wrong choice of using isopods with some of my species, stressing the roaches out. The cleaner beetles in large numbers seem to cause problems too. I use springtails with my stickbugs, not sure if they would bother the roaches? I also have several isopod colonies, wasn't sure if springtails should be with them or not? 

 

Any input is appreciated

[Hisserdude]

Springtails seem to be the best CUC for most roach species, however some of the larger varieties like the tropical pinks, (Sinella curviseta) have been known to stress out and overwhelm a lot of the more sensitive roach species.

[Jimbobtom]

10 hours ago, Hisserdude said:

Springtails seem to be the best CUC for most roach species, however some of the larger varieties like the tropical pinks, (Sinella curviseta) have been known to stress out and overwhelm a lot of the more sensitive roach species.

I've been redoing all of my colony bins... 1 at a time, lol taking forever. I have kept all cuc out just to be on the safe side. I think I have the springtails you speak of in with my surinam/green banana bin, but they don't seem bothered. They're thriving. The springtails are definitely abundant though, so I could see more sensitive species bothered by them for sure.

[Hisserdude]

14 hours ago, Jimbobtom said:

I've been redoing all of my colony bins... 1 at a time, lol taking forever. I have kept all cuc out just to be on the safe side. I think I have the springtails you speak of in with my surinam/green banana bin, but they don't seem bothered. They're thriving. The springtails are definitely abundant though, so I could see more sensitive species bothered by them for sure.

Yeah most burrowers are unaffected by tropical pink springtails, it's the non-burrowers that can get stressed by the constant tactile contact. Smaller springtail species like the little silver ones are compatible with every roach species I know of.

[Ghoul]

What isopod species did you use? The species can make a world of a difference. They also need cuttlefish bone to not start nibbling on the roaches, and Porcellio scaber should generally be avoided as a clean up crew for simply being too aggressive. Some species breed like mad and could stress roaches by their sheer numbers while others are slower breeders and more mellow, then there's substrate dwellers and species that live on top of the substrate, there's really a lot of different ones. 

[Jimbobtom]

7 hours ago, Ghoul said:

What isopod species did you use? The species can make a world of a difference. They also need cuttlefish bone to not start nibbling on the roaches, and Porcellio scaber should generally be avoided as a clean up crew for simply being too aggressive. Some species breed like mad and could stress roaches by their sheer numbers while others are slower breeders and more mellow, then there's substrate dwellers and species that live on top of the substrate, there's really a lot of different ones. 

I use cuttlebone in with my isopod colonies, but not usually in my other bins. I probably should! Good points though, my primary cuc across the board is porcellio dilatatus.

[Hisserdude]

On 5/11/2019 at 8:08 AM, Ghoul said:

What isopod species did you use? The species can make a world of a difference. They also need cuttlefish bone to not start nibbling on the roaches, and Porcellio scaber should generally be avoided as a clean up crew for simply being too aggressive. Some species breed like mad and could stress roaches by their sheer numbers while others are slower breeders and more mellow, then there's substrate dwellers and species that live on top of the substrate, there's really a lot of different ones. 

Yeah but the problem lies with most roaches and isopods inhibiting similar niches, so one usually outcompetes the other, and USUALLY the species of isopods selected as cleaner crews have the advantage with a faster breeding speed... Also the whole cuttlefish bone thing is overrated, several old time hobbyists have consistently reared several isopod species for years without any calcium additives, with next to no cannibalism... 

[Betta132]

And don't ever use P. ornatus! People feed them live (but crippled) roaches sometimes, they're extremely protein-hungry and would no doubt devour any roach that molted where they could reach. I'd be wary of using them as cleaners with reptiles, let alone things near their size. 

Armadillidium species should work out okay. They're a bit slower to breed, they don't have much interest in protein that can avoid them, and they don't tend to burrow. I have A. vulgare in with my domino roaches (accidental introduction), and that doesn't seem to cause any problems, though I do occasionally trap extras out. 

Since isopods can't climb, they're really easy to thin out. Just bury a deli cup up to its rim in the substrate, put food and a damp substance in the bottom, and cover it loosely with something like a magnolia leaf. Isopods go in after the food and can't climb back out. Then all you have to do is check if the cup contains anything you want to keep, remove anything you want to keep, and dump the rest into somewhere else. 

[Ghoul]

On 5/13/2019 at 6:11 AM, Hisserdude said:

Yeah but the problem lies with most roaches and isopods inhibiting similar niches, so one usually outcompetes the other, and USUALLY the species of isopods selected as cleaner crews have the advantage with a faster breeding speed... Also the whole cuttlefish bone thing is overrated, several old time hobbyists have consistently reared several isopod species for years without any calcium additives, with next to no cannibalism... 

Cuttlefish bone is just a safety measure, as isopod colonies without it can end up eating eachother, their own offspring, or worst case nibble on your roaches and ooths. My motto is to better be safe than sorry, especially with clean up crews. Some isopods breed so fast you wouldn't even notice if they actually were eating eachother, but in a bioactive set up you will notice the impact much more. Plenty of frog keepers used Porcellio scaber and noticed that eggs went missing. You need to be careful with what you put into your tank. 

Betta is right, and Porcellio species in general are more protein hungry and fast breeding than others. Armadillidium are a better option as they are more mellow, slower breeding and not too big on protein, especially the fancy species. I've heard mixed experiences with dwarf whites, but generally dwarf and pygmy species stay in the substrate and don't bother the roaches as much either. 

[Hisserdude]

On 5/19/2019 at 6:42 AM, Ghoul said:

Cuttlefish bone is just a safety measure, as isopod colonies without it can end up eating eachother, their own offspring, or worst case nibble on your roaches and ooths. My motto is to better be safe than sorry, especially with clean up crews. Some isopods breed so fast you wouldn't even notice if they actually were eating eachother, but in a bioactive set up you will notice the impact much more. Plenty of frog keepers used Porcellio scaber and noticed that eggs went missing. You need to be careful with what you put into your tank. 

Well yeah, but if the species is voracious enough to need cuttlebone to chew on when using them as cleaner crews, I'd avoid using them altogether... 😛 Most of my isopod species showed next to no cannibalism even without cuttlebones, but then again I made sure they had plenty of protein rich feed and veggies in addition to their leaf litter, whereas I know of some people who only use the latter in their colonies and expect them to do well... 

[Marco Sonnenscheisse]

I never had problems like this with Thrichorhina tomentosa. 

Sometimes they increase to really high number and a few times 

I was affraid that they could eventually dominate burrowing nymphs 

so I took out 90% of the little isopods.

[Ghoul]

@Marco Sonnenscheisse got a notification of this comment on email and when I saw the username in the preview it was so unexpected that it had me rolling so thanks for that :d

@Hisserdude I get your point but it's a safety measure for the people that already put in the wrong species of isopods, which is probably a whole lot of people, so might as well try to improve their roaches situation. Plus, roaches sometimes nibble on it too.

[Axolotl]

For dryer species like hissers, dubia and B. giganteus I use a combo of Alphitobius diaperinus beetles and Paraplecta parva (Little Kenyans).

For more humid species I use temperate springtails almost exclusively. 

For my dirty boys (Rhabdoblatta formosana I'm looking at you) I use a combo of springtails, dwarf white isopods and powder orange isopods.

Slightly off topic, but I just added dwarf purples to my Helix aspersa/Haplotrema vancouverense enclosure so I'll see how that turns out.

[RobertJFishing]

In regards to springtails...are Collembola good for roach vivs? I'm building a Viv for A. tesselata and want to be sure I don't get springs that will upset them haha. 

[Hisserdude]

On 5/30/2019 at 5:47 AM, Ghoul said:

@Hisserdude I get your point but it's a safety measure for the people that already put in the wrong species of isopods, which is probably a whole lot of people, so might as well try to improve their roaches situation. Plus, roaches sometimes nibble on it too.

True, can't hurt anything that's for sure, and will hopefully help prevent isopods from nibbling on the roaches themselves... I was just saying that most isopod colonies themselves don't NEED the stuff, so long as they are given other supplemental foods regularly, speaking from personal experience.

On 6/6/2019 at 9:40 PM, RobertJFishing said:

In regards to springtails...are Collembola good for roach vivs? I'm building a Viv for A. tesselata and want to be sure I don't get springs that will upset them haha. 

Most springtails don't bother roaches, but tropical pinks, (Sinella curviseta) have been well documented stressing out various roaches species in large numbers, and while they certainly outcompete and eradicate a lot of pests like grain mites, they can easily become pests in their own right, stressing out roaches with constant tactile contact... So I'd stay away from those in particular, most other springtails are fine for roaches.